geolab

Before starting, the car was running flawlessly :

I had plans to go see my parents for Xmas as always, but this time they had a trip as a Xmas present, so I stayed home.
I borrowed the keys of a friend's garage with tools and lift and decided to do several DIY's with the 10's of new parts I have in stock.
I armed myself with a camera, but the pictures are not worth posting.

I started by taking the battery out:

-changed the ground battery cable, old one seemed new (very easy)
-changed the fuel pump - fuel regulator - gastank fuel filter (easy but hectic, small area)
-fuel filter in engine compartment (easy)
-replaced fuel injectors with aftermarket ones (all right)
-changed the motor mounts with c4 ones, old ones look good (easy)
-changed the transmission mount, old one still new (very hard) you have to have a press AND THE TOOLS TO PUSH OLD MOUNT OUT.
-changed the lifters on all banks (moderate)
-replaced valve cover gaskets (moderate)
-replaced chain cover gaskets (ULTRA HARD), I had to dismantle the A/C mount and everything behind, catastrophic
-spark plug wires with intake manifold out (easy) beru numbered
-distributor heads and rotors (easy) those are numbered too
-spark plugs (with half the engine out, easy)
-New MAF sensor (easy)
-New altenator (easy)
-ignition switch unit (HARD under the seat)
-Fan and fan mount sand blasted and clear coated (easy)
-mufflers sand blasted, polished, VHT clear coated (easy)
-rear engine sound absorbing mat. (looked hard but finally easy)

I reinstalled the battery, and removed the DME relay, and cranked twice.
Reinstalled DME relay and cranked, It started with a very very rough hicup idle.

It was rattling all over. A quick PST2 launch, and it read O2 sensor.
-Replaced O2 sensor, no change
-Replaced MAF with old one, no change
-Replaced ignition switch with old one, no change
-Replaced ISV with old one, no change
-rechecked ignition rotor emplacement direction, both point to same cylinder.
-rechecked ignition wires positions on engine and distributor caps, all is correct.
-removed the top distributor to coil wire, started the car, runs the same = rattling hard
-removed the bottom distributor to coil wire, engine does not start at all.

two things I haven't checked
- replace new aftermarket injectors with old ORIGINAL ones (old ones already being serviced at bosch) MAYBE they gave me wrong injectors? would wrong injectors do this?
- remove the intake manifold and recheck all vaccum tubes behind???

by the way, it looks like the exhaust is spitting gas and it smells very bad.
rpm @round 400

It is getting me crazy

Anyone needs details on all those DIYs, I'll be glad to help, just ask

trying to solve the enigma........

Garth S

.... it is likely that your shiny new lifters are not yet pumped up .... valves will clatter enough to wake the dead until they expand to reduce the valve lash ...

PS: I'll be by to pick up all your old parts ---- for they sound as if they are still in great shape

geolab

well Garth surprisingly, those went quiet in 10 secs - 15secs.
What I did was soak them in mineral oil for 1 week in a bottle of evian on the radiator.
Two days before installing them, I changed the oil to Mobil1 0W-30
And I filled the engine with 0W-30 this time, really fluid.
and garage was heated,
I was surprised how quickly they went quiet.
The rattling is the engine, or should I say hicups, backfire, etc
If I rev the motor to 2000 - 3000, runs normal

BTW, I also took the exhaust manifold out to change the aluminium seals.

TroyN

Sounds like your timing is off, maybe your plug wires are not quite right?

Garth S

An excellent prep on the lifters George .... although I would have used a bottle of Volvic ( sic. Le Puy de Dome) - better mineral content Anyway, having struck out on lifters, -

Do you have the type & specs on the injectors installed? Bosch are pretty well colour coded regards lbs/hr capacity ( think ours are 24lbs/hr, but have to check) . Also, the Bosch are high impedance, at ~ 14.2 ohms. Do the new ones match?

geolab

I was scrolling the net and saw a guy on bay selling 993 injector equivalent, coded FJ51
a quick google and fell on several 0280150786 equivalent = FJ51 24lbs/hr (I think for ford 7 liters)
So I called a friend in the US, he had them in stock and sent them to me FOR FREE. cost zero.

geolab

I really have to check for the nth time.
Though it is sooo easy with new material.
The distributor caps are numbered 162435
and the cables are I-1 I-2 I-3 and II-1 II-2 II-3
I for bottom distributor top plugs
II for top distributor bottom plugs
left is 123 rear to front
right is 456 rear to front

It is so easy to check because plug numbered II-6 for example is on top distributor @ number 6 and hooked on the front right cylinder bottom
but I will check more than once , again , thanks

axl911

Sounds like you are getting plenty of fuel but not spark. The caps and wires are labelled. However, you can install the distributor cap 180 degrees out. On the distributor body, there is a tiny notch located at about 2 o'clock. That is cylinder 1.

Otherwise, you think you have an injector that is stuck in the ON position?

AOW162435

Wow - that's an ambitious list! Hopefully you get the engine figured out soon.

What was the reason to use C4 engine mounts?

Andreas

geolab

Yes, cylinder one on both distributor heads are next to the left chain cover, rotors are well in their respective grooves, but I must admit I have not noticed the notches.

As for fuel, yes, I feel the engine drowning, though either no spark or lots of fuel.
I wanted to control each injecor through the PST2, but the PST2 battery died on me last night and couldn't find the charger. thanks

geolab

105 euros each @ dealer, 325 each for the other,
According to porsche mech. the C2 ones are dampened for upward force (bumps, etc) as well as down,
while C4 do not need upward dampening because of front axle rendering the engine-tranny-diff. more
rigid.
and I do not do bumps...

AX993

"-removed the top distributor to coil wire, started the car, runs the same = rattling hard
-removed the bottom distributor to coil wire, engine does not start at all."

Geolab, maybe distributor belt ?? Bad Coil ???

2Many Cars

I think glenn '88 is highlighting the best clue. In theory anyway, the engine should run the same on either distributor. It sounds like there is something major wrong with the timing and/or wires. If the rotors are turning together the belt is probably fine. Very rough running and backfiring can easily happen if the firing order is off. I think this is where you want to start.

Bon Chance!

Rick Lee

Did you take the engine out for this? I'm wondering how bad the lifter R&R is with the engine in the car.

geolab

Engine Stayed in.
Feedback on Lifters?
It is not hard to do, I would rank it moderate with engine in.
I wouldn't do it without a lift.

for this particular DIY
Cost is 13-$14 per INA lifter
€80 for a small (5-50lbs) torque wrench
a few bucks for 38 bolts for covers
a few bucks for 24 rocker-arm bolts
and the price of the gaskets

To do the DIY, you need to remove the engine side metal protections.
That was the GREAT pain I had.
The metal protections have 3 six pan hex screws holding them each to the engine,
and three 10 mm bolts, one on the rear side of the car and two in front.
The three six pan hex bolts on each side are enormeous PITA to remove. And if you strip one, it is on the engine block.
The way I removed mine is with a six pan snap-on snapped on a long
connection without the wrench. And I gave it a HUGE blow with a hammer before
unscrewing. They barely came off half stripped. New ones and anti-seize re-assured me.

The 10mm bolts on right side are easy and accessible.
Left side to the front of the car are very HARD to remove/install, there is two.

It took me more time to remove the side metal engine guards, than replace the lifters
and reseal.
I stripped three hex screws out of 38 on the covers, replaced all with new.
The guy @ porsche before did not tighten at 7lbs NO WAY.
Particular thing about unboltin the rocker arm screws is that they start loosening with a
strange feeling like they are going to strip, but none did.
Make sure you do one rocker at a time.
Make sure the rocker axle goes in the right direction.
Pressure blow out oil passage behind lifters in rocker arm.
New lifters go in really tight, only use fingers to plug in place.
I drowned every rocker-axle in oil before installing.
two rocker arms on each side would be on cam.
turn the engine before doing those
to turn engine, I used a flat screwdriver and turned the flywheel thru the small hole underneath.