RonCT

Hello,

A little background... I moved over from an E46 M3 to my 997S and have been having a blast with my 1st rear-engined car. I DE (Black) and enjoy going to monthly PCA meetings, events, drives, etc. I'm happy with my current car (avatar), but am seeking a more "pure" experience. I do not like over-assisted, computer screens, etc.

After reading old Excellence articles, doing research, and talking to other PCA oriented folk, I'm seriously considering one of the following directions and would appreciate any input you might have to offer:

1. A 964 variant - C2, RSA, Turbo modified...

2. 993 platform taken to another level. I can't see a turbo because I do not want AWD. I like the idea of taking a base 993 and heading toward RS territory. Not a clone project, but to make the ultimate street / DE machine that will be comfortable and potent. I'd lighten it as much as possible and don't mind losing things like sound insulation. But I'll want AC (pollen / dust filter a huge plus for me), a dash and carpeting, etc. I'm shying away from a C2S - more $ for a wider rear track and additional drag - so a C2 might be the best starting point?

Performance wise, I enjoy the power and torque of the 997S. When I want power, it's there. I've never had a momentum car and really don't want to start in that direction. The M3 and 997S had plenty of power - I'm not interested in more.

You may say that I need to get out there and drive some versions of these cars and I have and will continue to do so. But those of you "in the know" have a much better perspective on "sensation" and "feel" of the 993 platform. You might know right off the bat "if you had an M3 and drive a 997S on the track now, forget the C2 unless you radically modify the engine..."

I found it easy to get 8/10 out of the 997S having never owned a rear-engined car before. 9/10 took a little seat-time this past season and I've been able to log 1:02s at Lime Rock and 2:15s at Watkins Glen. I still have another 10th to wring out of the 997S. That gives you some feel for where I am "sensation wise" on the track - I'd want to create a car that has potential for that and then some if possible. But, this is not to be a race car, just for DE and enjoying around town and at PCA meetings, etc.

So, opinions and leads on cars appreciated.

AM993

Have you considered a 996 GT3? It looks like it would be a good fit for what you want.

jdistefa

+1

You're going to end up spending very close to current used 6-Gt3 prices with your proposed 993 project (if it's done right).

1pcarnut

I'm on my 9th 911 and my 965 (964 turbo) was my favorite of all of them. A very lively car and with some current technology in the form of headers, updated turbo, Tial wastegate, it came on boost very smoothly and quickly. It was lowered and balanced and handled as well as my previous 993, if not better. Plus no SAI issues!

os993

You could get a 993 TT, remove the AWD to make it a RWD TT. Couple of guys on this board went this route.

RonCT

Performance wise that's on par with what I drive now as proven out on the Ring times and my own track experience. Heavy car, track oriented. What I want is a "classic" air cooled Porsche that is somewhat a sleeper. Very light, but high power to weight ratio.

993 or 964 is the direction...

993T has some appeal, but I don't care much for the rear wing or the idea of removing AWD. Just doesn't sound like something I'd want to do (vs. starting with RWD and adding). This is not about saving money, it's about creating something to fit my program. Now taking a 993 and putting a Turbo engine in it - that's sounding more like it

jdistefa

Ron,

Do a search and I think you'll find a few threads on building up a 'light' 993/RS/RSCS clone. I know you don't want a clone, but the threads will be instructive re. what's involved.

You can create a 2900 lb car without too much hassle. Going below that will require more work and sacrificing of basic comforts.

Stage 1:

Leave the motor alone
RS carpets, remove rear seats & belts
Remove heater blower
Lightweight seats
RS door panels
Remove airbags
Momo/Porsche motorsports steering wheel
Wheels - various forged, Volks, or MY02
JICs or PSS9s
Lightweight, hi flow cats/crossovers
Lightweight sealed battery
Remove engine tray

Stage 2:

Regear tranny
Light weight flywheel and RS clutch
Rebuild LSD
Chip de jour
EVO uprights & tie rods
Consider removal of A/C

Stage 3:

Go psycho, drill out the metal bumpers front & rear
Consider removal of sunroof
Remove engine compartment insulation
Remove car stereo - you won't need it anymore
Crack the motor, 3.8 rebuild +/- higher flow heads, get ready to spend some big bucks for a decreasing margin of return

RonCT

Thanks for the great info. I think I'd do a combination... I want the airbags, ac, heat for the street, but would surely drop weight with door panels, seat removal, etc. I'd want any bolt-on goodies for the engine and drivetrain. Wolf in sheep's clothing...

993_Pilot

If budget isn't a consideration, consider Ninemeister heads. Do a search and you will understand the benefits . . . besides, we need a test case for the conversion here in the US!

AM993

OK Matt, now I can see what you are up to.

jdistefa

Wha ha ha ha ha...! evil laugh

c4consult

ruf btr

NP993

One of the things to know about 993's is that there aren't any bolt-on mods for the engine and gearbox. You can chip a '95, but still -- these engines have pretty much perfect exhausts and intakes out of the box. People *sell* bolt-on parts, but none of them do anything. As far as the gearbox goes, you're looking at a very expensive re-gear bill.

The only way to make a 993 faster without spending $10-30K on engine/tranny work is by putting it on a diet, and as people mentioned above, there's only about 150 easy pounds that can be removed. The rest requires fiberglass body panels and very incremental, expensive modifications. That said, a 993 is really not a very fast car. If you want something that's going to be quick like your 997S, then, well, you should probably keep it, or get a GT3, or get a torsion-bar 911 with a 3.6.

mrsullivan

I have owned/driven most of the cars you mention (as many here have). The problem is what you want doesnt exist in a 993 or 964... in my opinion. If you dont want a 993tt, you are down to the NA 993 models, none of which have the torque/HP you want. It might be a stretch to call them "momentum" cars, but not too much of a stretch. If you want "pure" Porsche experience in a naturally aspirated 2 wheel drive car with strong power, its down to the C2/S and GT3 models of the 996/997 range... if you want air cooled and the above, it just doesnt really exist in the U.S.

I guess the 964 turbo 3.6 is a (pretty) raw, fast, torquey ,rear wheel drive experience... probably the closest to what you are discussing...(?)

There is the whole ninemeister or super charger route I suppose...

Have you ever consider a very well done, top notch early 911 reproducion hot rod? An RS/RSR type of recreation? Some of those coming out of California are just amazing and represent some of the best looking and best performing Porsches. Think R Gruppe... have you considered this? For a really nice one, probably close to the cost of your 997 S

RonCT

I've received more than a couple of suggestions of going the 993TT route with or without removal of the AWD. Maybe that's a direction to look in considering where I'm coming from (997S).