3.8 Kit?'s
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
3.8 Kit?'s
I am wondering if anyone on the board has converted their car to a 3.8 liter. I have been toying with the idea and was wondering what kit people have been using and what their experiences have been as far as every day driving, hp/torque gains, reliability, other componets would be recommended to swap out while doing the conversion to a completely stock car, and of course cost.
#3
Phlat Black Guru
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I am wondering if anyone on the board has converted their car to a 3.8 liter. I have been toying with the idea and was wondering what kit people have been using and what their experiences have been as far as every day driving, hp/torque gains, reliability, other componets would be recommended to swap out while doing the conversion to a completely stock car, and of course cost.
its about 16k!!.........not worth it at all.
you best bang, would be to regear your transmission. its "like" adding 40 hp
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
Interesting info here: http://instant-g.com/Products/36Conversion/38.html
http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx/p93027.jpg
its about 16k!!.........not worth it at all.
you best bang, would be to regear your transmission. its "like" adding 40 hp
its about 16k!!.........not worth it at all.
you best bang, would be to regear your transmission. its "like" adding 40 hp
I had thought that I saw the kit somewhere for about $5k one time but that was obvisouly a mistake, and at $16k I agree that is probably money not well spent.
What is this gear ratio change you speak of? And where do I get the parts?
#5
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you can go mild to wild. Do a search, many others have been down the this road. My gearbox was on the wild side, and When I sold my car, I sent all the paperwork about ratios etc.. to the new owner.
#6
RL Technical Advisor
There are many ways to do a 3.8 conversion,...
IMHO, the factory RS engine kit is really cost prohibitive for the benefits gained. We've done these several ways and dyno'ed all of them to compare the results. If one is predisposed to do this, the biggest gains come from the displacement increase, RS cams, and RS intake valves. Of course, the software must be upgraded to suit and we do that locally, as well.
I won't argue the cost-to-benefit ratio but if one is faced with rebuilding their engine, this is a logical discussion to have in the pursuit of maximum streetable (and smog-compliant) performance.
Of course, I would strongly recommend other powertrain changes before considering this one and those include:
1) Close-ratio gears (G50-31 or -33).
2) RS lightweight flywheel & matching clutch kit.
3) Good performance software.
IMHO, the factory RS engine kit is really cost prohibitive for the benefits gained. We've done these several ways and dyno'ed all of them to compare the results. If one is predisposed to do this, the biggest gains come from the displacement increase, RS cams, and RS intake valves. Of course, the software must be upgraded to suit and we do that locally, as well.
I won't argue the cost-to-benefit ratio but if one is faced with rebuilding their engine, this is a logical discussion to have in the pursuit of maximum streetable (and smog-compliant) performance.
Of course, I would strongly recommend other powertrain changes before considering this one and those include:
1) Close-ratio gears (G50-31 or -33).
2) RS lightweight flywheel & matching clutch kit.
3) Good performance software.
#7
Ignoring the cost issue there are several ways to go, I did mine w/ Mahle RSR 102mm p/c, RS cams, valves and a custom chip. It's a very satiusfying package. Nine meister has a very attractive alternative package which can be configured a number of different ways.
The hp increase isn't what is significant, the across the board torque increase is.
Good advice about the trans. I purchased a g50/30 Cup trans, it is somewhat racier than a g50/31,32,33 RS trans or the RoW g50/21. Any of them would be a very desireable upgrade, unless you want to race in which case it'll bump you a class
as Steve mentioned the lwf/RS clutch package is a no brainer
I would also want a solid supension, say Bilstein hd w/ RoW M030 springs at a minimum.
The hp increase isn't what is significant, the across the board torque increase is.
Good advice about the trans. I purchased a g50/30 Cup trans, it is somewhat racier than a g50/31,32,33 RS trans or the RoW g50/21. Any of them would be a very desireable upgrade, unless you want to race in which case it'll bump you a class
as Steve mentioned the lwf/RS clutch package is a no brainer
I would also want a solid supension, say Bilstein hd w/ RoW M030 springs at a minimum.
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#8
Rennlist Member
On the gear ratio changes, you can call power haus II and have them put what ever you want together. Tell'm what you want for max speed, your rpm limit, and they can space them out. I'm not sure of the cost of just buying a -31 or 33 trans, but the gears will run you about $700-$800 each. you may be able to work it to re-use some of current ones also...
#9
On the gear ratio changes, you can call power haus II and have them put what ever you want together. Tell'm what you want for max speed, your rpm limit, and they can space them out. I'm not sure of the cost of just buying a -31 or 33 trans, but the gears will run you about $700-$800 each. you may be able to work it to re-use some of current ones also...
is that they come w/ the very nice motorsports lsd and nice internal upgrades like steel syncros, the /30 and /32 are best and most expensive in this regard.
#10
Rennlist Member
Ignoring the cost issue there are several ways to go, I did mine w/ Mahle RSR 102mm p/c, RS cams, valves and a custom chip. It's a very satiusfying package. Nine meister has a very attractive alternative package which can be configured a number of different ways.
The hp increase isn't what is significant, the across the board torque increase is.
Good advice about the trans. I purchased a g50/30 Cup trans, it is somewhat racier than a g50/31,32,33 RS trans or the RoW g50/21. Any of them would be a very desireable upgrade, unless you want to race in which case it'll bump you a class
as Steve mentioned the lwf/RS clutch package is a no brainer
I would also want a solid supension, say Bilstein hd w/ RoW M030 springs at a minimum.
The hp increase isn't what is significant, the across the board torque increase is.
Good advice about the trans. I purchased a g50/30 Cup trans, it is somewhat racier than a g50/31,32,33 RS trans or the RoW g50/21. Any of them would be a very desireable upgrade, unless you want to race in which case it'll bump you a class
as Steve mentioned the lwf/RS clutch package is a no brainer
I would also want a solid supension, say Bilstein hd w/ RoW M030 springs at a minimum.
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for all of the info after doing a little research I don't think I will be doing the 3.8 motor but, will look into the different gear ratios a little more. The car for me is mainly a street car that I drive back and forth on sunny days and ocasionally use at local club track days. I am definetly not disappointed in the current performance but it never hurts to go a little bit faster. Unfortunately there is no longer a track any where near where I live for at least a couple more years.
#12
Rennlist Member
I was always disappointed that the 3.8L conversion actually only adds. 0.15L, not 0.2L. Kind of a ripoff.
Changing gear ratios is also veeeeery expensive. Several thousand dollars. Some people (including stock class racers, doh!) just change the ring & pinion, which still costs a few thousand $$.
Changing gear ratios is also veeeeery expensive. Several thousand dollars. Some people (including stock class racers, doh!) just change the ring & pinion, which still costs a few thousand $$.
#13
It's such a shame you chaps stateside appear not to have custom remapping, a few of the guys over here are offering approx 320bhp from a standard 3.6L for approx $1000...
I have been on track with a remapped 3.6......no real advantage from my RS 3.8 lump at all
I have been on track with a remapped 3.6......no real advantage from my RS 3.8 lump at all
#15
Changing the cwp to 8:32 doesn't help anything.
Stock g50/20
Issues: 1 is too short, 6 is too long, drops are too big
g50/20 w/ 8:32 cwp
issues: 1 is way too short, 6 is too short, same big drops
g50/30 cup
issues: 6 is a little too short for best fuel economy, you will shift a lot more(not really an issue because it ius a joy)
This one sort of gets the idea of the feel of a stock vs g50/30
Stock g50/20
Issues: 1 is too short, 6 is too long, drops are too big
g50/20 w/ 8:32 cwp
issues: 1 is way too short, 6 is too short, same big drops
g50/30 cup
issues: 6 is a little too short for best fuel economy, you will shift a lot more(not really an issue because it ius a joy)
This one sort of gets the idea of the feel of a stock vs g50/30