Land Jet

I think the top end rebuild issue depends on the car and how it has been taken care of. There is a guy on here named richardew who's 993 has over 200,000 miles with no rebuild. He is the original owner and it's his daily driver. My car has 98,000 miles and does not smoke, even on start up, and uses 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles, which is in spec. Maybe someone should set up a poll because there are only 4 replys who say they had a rebuild. Makes me wonder if a bad batch of valves came out of the foundry one time, but other batches may not have been the same. Hard to tell the real story without real numbers. The controversy may get fed by the disappointed owners who had to shell out thousands of dollars to fix a premium brand car that they expected would never have this kind of problem. Just my 2 cents.

FLYT993

You had an entire top end performed by a reputable shop for $3500? Are you kidding? Who and where? These jobs normally run from 6k-8k...don't they???

JChiles

Agree. My has about 90K and uses about 1 liter/10000 km. My take is that it is exaggerated, when discussing 993 issues on forums here in sweden this is hardly ever mentioned as an issue. I haven't met anyone who has done a rebuild because of valve guides.

TRINITONY

No, he's not kidding. There's a thread detailing all that was done; think it was done in Mass' or Boston. Search is your friend...

fast_freddy

I had mine done at 93k miles. In fact I have Vic's old car (who you are quoting). The top end/valve job cost me about $3500 in southern New Hampshire. Had other things done too but the base job was $3500. Since it was done I haven't burned any oil and the car runs like a champ.

Jay993turbo

Thats not true. A worn valve guide causes the valve to wobble which in turn causes wear on the valve seat. Especially with the smaller diameter valve stems. This will show in a leakdown test. A leakdown test should always be done...imho.

FLYT993

Wow!!! Unfortunately, I don't think I've heard of anyone on the West Coast doing quality valve jobs for THAT much. That's a helluva value.

fast_freddy

Well, I think the thing you have working against you in SoCal is the simple law of supply and demand. Lots of Porsches, good weather year round, people willing to throw money at problems trying to make them go away. You've heard of the "yankee thrift" I'm sure... People around here would tell you to F-off if a valve job was quoted at $8k. Also, for the guy both Vic and I used, his overhead is minimal relative to more pretentious shops, lets just say his garage is 180 degrees away from pretentious. We're not paying for a pretty showroom/waiting area. Just like someone from SoCal said about the guy I used (he used too), "Just a smart guy with a box of wrenches".

WHB Porsche

Not entirely true. For those who don't browse it, we recently had this discussion on the Turbo forum.

Bad valve guides won't always cause the valve to seat improperly, they just won't guide it properly every time. It is possible to do a leakdown test and have the valve luckily (or unluckily) seat in the proper position, yielding good numbers. However, if the engine was turned over and the leakdown performed again, the numbers would probably be worse as the valve would not seat properly.

In conclusion, bad leakdown numbers can be indicative of shot valve guides but a car with bad guides CAN occasionally seat properly and give okay leakdown numbers. The thread on the turbo forum is here:

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turbo-forum/383791-lower-valve-cover.html

It was originally about valve covers, but don't worry, it quickly drifted.

matt777

One of the reasons I started this thread is because of the big numbers guys had thrown out for head/guide work ($8-12K). I'm just guessing that these jobs often snowball to include much more extensive work scopes "while the engine is out". I've done enough engine work to wonder how they could possibly spend that kind of money without lots of new parts (like rings, pistons and liners, etc.)

chris walrod

Like the infamous 'throw in a set of Carrillos, while were there'..

WHB Porsche

And since the pistons need to come out to install the rods, we might as well get some bigger ones and bore it out to 3.8L...

FLYT993

FF, I agree. If you guys are getting outstanding work for those prices I could conceivably make the case for shipping or even driving the car to "your" guy, when and if the need arises. My car just turned 74k so I'm in that "window" or at least approaching it rapidly. She burns about a quart every 2000-2500 and not a puff of smoke on start ups.

What non OEM material is your guy replacing the guides with?

Terry Adams

Mine went from $6500 to $9500 due to LWF, clutch, plug wires, bunch of little stuff. I mean, the labor is free "while we're in there", right? And I am using about 2 quarts less Mobil 1 per 10K miles so I am saving in the long run.

We pay more for everything in CA: housing, gas, motels, restaurants, potholes, ....

dcdude

I think that if my engine was ever out, I'd have a hard time putting it back in without 3.8L P&Cs. Could (should?) you keep the same rods?

Is there a downside to a 3.8? Other peripheral work required?