Dreaded CEL - CRAP!
07-05-2007, 12:48 PM
#16
Race Director
The BMW Drive Cycle is posted on a members web site, don't remember his name off the top of my head but a search should find it.
According to that procedure (I used it once, with success) the secret is to stay UNDER 3k RPM and under 65 mph, just the opposite of what I'd been doing (w/o success) prior.
That procedure really should be a sticky or at least in a DIY posting.
According to that procedure (I used it once, with success) the secret is to stay UNDER 3k RPM and under 65 mph, just the opposite of what I'd been doing (w/o success) prior.
That procedure really should be a sticky or at least in a DIY posting.
07-05-2007, 02:19 PM
#17
Racer
Here ya go: http://srlx.com/p-car/obdii_readiness.pdf
Piece of cake. I've used it for the last few years without a problem
Piece of cake. I've used it for the last few years without a problem
07-05-2007, 02:37 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
While there is nothing good about a CEL there can be good outcomes (depending on what you define as being a good outcome).
I had a CEL about 3 months after purchasing my car. It was an SAI related fault code so that meant my car would not pass the computer smog test here in CA no way no how. I had the light turned off a few times and eventually just pulled the bulb out. When it came time for a smog cert I was lucky enough that my local dealer went to bat for me with the smog referee and I got a pass. The wiggle test of my valve guides when my lower valve covers were being resealed confirmed that they have a little more play than new and fresh guides have and my oil consumption is fairly high at about a quart per 1000 miles which is probably what has clogged the ports. So a long story longer, assuming you have the dreaded SAI fault code you can pull the bulb so it goes away (at the risk of not seeing other faults that come up) and try to get the car passed by the smog referee if your state requires a smog cert to renew your registration. Outside of that you can have a professional clear the ports for about a grand or you can write a large check and have the top-end redone with new guides and have the ports cleared then. Some have found other culprits that have caused the SAI fault if I've understood what I've read here but I'd say you have a few options. I went with the cheapest until its clutch time....a smog referee and pulled the bulb.
I had a CEL about 3 months after purchasing my car. It was an SAI related fault code so that meant my car would not pass the computer smog test here in CA no way no how. I had the light turned off a few times and eventually just pulled the bulb out. When it came time for a smog cert I was lucky enough that my local dealer went to bat for me with the smog referee and I got a pass. The wiggle test of my valve guides when my lower valve covers were being resealed confirmed that they have a little more play than new and fresh guides have and my oil consumption is fairly high at about a quart per 1000 miles which is probably what has clogged the ports. So a long story longer, assuming you have the dreaded SAI fault code you can pull the bulb so it goes away (at the risk of not seeing other faults that come up) and try to get the car passed by the smog referee if your state requires a smog cert to renew your registration. Outside of that you can have a professional clear the ports for about a grand or you can write a large check and have the top-end redone with new guides and have the ports cleared then. Some have found other culprits that have caused the SAI fault if I've understood what I've read here but I'd say you have a few options. I went with the cheapest until its clutch time....a smog referee and pulled the bulb.
07-05-2007, 04:23 PM
#19
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CEL can be triggered by many things.. My last CEL was an intermittant fuel injector malfunction.. I could feel the engine get rough when I was driving and it malfunctioned... I eneded up getting the fuel injector replaced. Check the OBD code and see what it is. My wrench does this for me for free. It takes 5 minutes..
07-05-2007, 07:13 PM
#20
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Well, I am going to the auto parts store to get teh code, I don't know about the reset...we will see. I will post the results.
For what it is worth, I think this all comes back to Karma. I have been telling anyone who will listen about how great the car has been lately. I replaced the top, the seat covers, the steering wheel, shifter, and e-brake. It is transformed, and has been running and looking great. Then this happens....
For what it is worth, I think this all comes back to Karma. I have been telling anyone who will listen about how great the car has been lately. I replaced the top, the seat covers, the steering wheel, shifter, and e-brake. It is transformed, and has been running and looking great. Then this happens....
07-05-2007, 11:56 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by ecobb993
Here ya go: http://srlx.com/p-car/obdii_readiness.pdf
Piece of cake. I've used it for the last few years without a problem
Piece of cake. I've used it for the last few years without a problem
07-06-2007, 12:30 AM
#22
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Well, a couple of positive remarks:
My CEL came on and I went to my mechanic who told me it was simply an O2 sensor. He could reset the light and it would be fine....so all good news. Except for the fact that my tags were due to be renewed in 2 weeks and I would have to get the readiness codes reset.
The next good news is I simply followed the advice Bill gave above (except I think it's under 3K rpm and under 55mph, which I kept under 50 just to be safe, and drive for at least 20 minutes). ANyway, I drove around like a great, great, great ,great grandmother for about a week and all of the codes were set perfectly with no CEL. YEAH!!!!!!
The next good news: I renewed my tags with no problem. The guy checking the car noticed the CAT's underneath the driver's door
were fine, so he never even noticed that I have no mufflers and only mufler bypasses. Double YEAH!!!
So there's a positive story for you. Hope yours works out as well or even better. Maybe yur CEL is just a warning that your car is just too damn good looking
My CEL came on and I went to my mechanic who told me it was simply an O2 sensor. He could reset the light and it would be fine....so all good news. Except for the fact that my tags were due to be renewed in 2 weeks and I would have to get the readiness codes reset.
The next good news is I simply followed the advice Bill gave above (except I think it's under 3K rpm and under 55mph, which I kept under 50 just to be safe, and drive for at least 20 minutes). ANyway, I drove around like a great, great, great ,great grandmother for about a week and all of the codes were set perfectly with no CEL. YEAH!!!!!!
The next good news: I renewed my tags with no problem. The guy checking the car noticed the CAT's underneath the driver's door
were fine, so he never even noticed that I have no mufflers and only mufler bypasses. Double YEAH!!!So there's a positive story for you. Hope yours works out as well or even better. Maybe yur CEL is just a warning that your car is just too damn good looking
07-06-2007, 01:39 AM
#23
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OK, got the codes and a little hope tonight (curtesy of the archives! LOVE the rennlist!) The codes are P1411 (ever heard of that? Who would have thunk it?) and P010. In searching the archives, I found someone else with the exact same codes that found it to ba a vacuum line (see below). It is late now and papa bear is sleepy and not too mechanically inclined, thereby I will have to wait until tomorrow PM before I can confirm, but it there is a hose off, I will be dancing!
Here is the text of the other message - me not know how to link.....
"97 C2S with 55k miles.
My CEL came on about two months ago and the codes were P0410 (Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction) and P1411 (Manufacturer Control Auxiliary Emission Controls). We cleared the codes and they came right back.
I started preparing myself for a SAI port flush at best and an engine rebuild at worst. Last weekend I decided to check everything in the system before I made an appointment for a shop diagnosis.
I could hear the pump running so I knew it wasn't the relay or the pump. I could feel just a little air being sucked into the hose at the air cleaner. I took the hose off the check valve and there was no air flow there. WooHooo! That meant the problem was upstream from the infamous ports. I pulled the vacuum line off the solenoid valve and there was no vacuum. Then I found the other end of that vacuum line had come out of the fitting near the fan, under the intake on the driver's side. After reconnecting that vacuum line the codes cleared and the CEL is out. [happy dance]!!
The top of the check valve was a bit rusty so I'm going to replace it in two weeks."
Here is the text of the other message - me not know how to link.....
"97 C2S with 55k miles.
My CEL came on about two months ago and the codes were P0410 (Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction) and P1411 (Manufacturer Control Auxiliary Emission Controls). We cleared the codes and they came right back.
I started preparing myself for a SAI port flush at best and an engine rebuild at worst. Last weekend I decided to check everything in the system before I made an appointment for a shop diagnosis.
I could hear the pump running so I knew it wasn't the relay or the pump. I could feel just a little air being sucked into the hose at the air cleaner. I took the hose off the check valve and there was no air flow there. WooHooo! That meant the problem was upstream from the infamous ports. I pulled the vacuum line off the solenoid valve and there was no vacuum. Then I found the other end of that vacuum line had come out of the fitting near the fan, under the intake on the driver's side. After reconnecting that vacuum line the codes cleared and the CEL is out. [happy dance]!!
The top of the check valve was a bit rusty so I'm going to replace it in two weeks."
07-06-2007, 02:06 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Kcreager1
Well, the Check Engine Light came on on my 96 Cab last night on my drive home from work. I have read many of the posts on here over the years and tried to understand the pain of my fellow 993 owners. At the same time I have to admit that while reading these tales of woe I could not surpress the little grin that came from the knowledge my car did not suffer from this particular afflicton. Those days are gone now. Lord, I miss those days!
I am amazed at how a little light can bother me so much. I now have a better appreciation of the irritation factor of this light. AND I hav e not had a passenger int he car saying "uh, nice car, but why is the CEL on?"
I have read all of the horror stories in the archives. Do any of you have a 'feel good' story related to the check engine light? Something to raise my spirits a little? something along the lines of....
1. My CEL came on for the first time and I was horrified. The next day I started the car, and noticed the light stayed on, took it out of gear and talked to the car like I did went we were dating. After 2 hours that seemed like 20 minutes, the light went off and has been off ever since.
2. My CEL came on and I drove home and called my shop. To my surprise, the shop said that this is no problem and I should bring it in first thing in the morning. When I took it in, the owner of the shop himself took the car saying that he had hoped to work on this issue today and would do it free of charge.
3. My CEL came on and I was pissed! Then I realized that I now get XM even though I have no equipment installed! Rock On! See my web site for the DIY to get your CEL to come on so you too can have free XM!
Really, if you have any moderately simple feel good stories, I would like to hear them. Everything I see on the site is gloom and doom. I am hoping that my tale does not end up like this!
Thanks
I am amazed at how a little light can bother me so much. I now have a better appreciation of the irritation factor of this light. AND I hav e not had a passenger int he car saying "uh, nice car, but why is the CEL on?"
I have read all of the horror stories in the archives. Do any of you have a 'feel good' story related to the check engine light? Something to raise my spirits a little? something along the lines of....
1. My CEL came on for the first time and I was horrified. The next day I started the car, and noticed the light stayed on, took it out of gear and talked to the car like I did went we were dating. After 2 hours that seemed like 20 minutes, the light went off and has been off ever since.
2. My CEL came on and I drove home and called my shop. To my surprise, the shop said that this is no problem and I should bring it in first thing in the morning. When I took it in, the owner of the shop himself took the car saying that he had hoped to work on this issue today and would do it free of charge.
3. My CEL came on and I was pissed! Then I realized that I now get XM even though I have no equipment installed! Rock On! See my web site for the DIY to get your CEL to come on so you too can have free XM!
Really, if you have any moderately simple feel good stories, I would like to hear them. Everything I see on the site is gloom and doom. I am hoping that my tale does not end up like this!
Thanks
07-07-2007, 12:05 AM
#26
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I bought my 1996 C4S six years ago and the CEL came on shortly afterwards. I spoke with the local Porsche dealer about it and he said $4000 to fix the problem. He also said I would probably be back in 40k miles to have it done agian since the top end rebuild was only a temporary fix. His recomendation was to save the money and just drive the car hard. Spoke to another well know Porsche mechanic and he said the same thing, just drive it hard like it was meant to be driven.
Six years later and 114k miles, the engine is still running strong. It doesn't burn any oil and I don't even notice the CEL any more that is always on. I occasionally check the codes to make sure it is only a P0140 or P1411 (Secondary Air Injection) and that nothing else is wrong.
The biggest challenge is getting it to pass the emissions test every 2 years.
My recomendation is don't worry about the P0410 or P1411 codes unless you are burning oil.
Jack
Six years later and 114k miles, the engine is still running strong. It doesn't burn any oil and I don't even notice the CEL any more that is always on. I occasionally check the codes to make sure it is only a P0140 or P1411 (Secondary Air Injection) and that nothing else is wrong.
The biggest challenge is getting it to pass the emissions test every 2 years.
My recomendation is don't worry about the P0410 or P1411 codes unless you are burning oil.
Jack
07-07-2007, 12:29 AM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Jack Esposito
I bought my 1996 C4S six years ago and the CEL came on shortly afterwards. I spoke with the local Porsche dealer about it and he said $4000 to fix the problem. He also said I would probably be back in 40k miles to have it done agian since the top end rebuild was only a temporary fix. His recomendation was to save the money and just drive the car hard. Spoke to another well know Porsche mechanic and he said the same thing, just drive it hard like it was meant to be driven.
Six years later and 114k miles, the engine is still running strong. It doesn't burn any oil and I don't even notice the CEL any more that is always on. I occasionally check the codes to make sure it is only a P0140 or P1411 (Secondary Air Injection) and that nothing else is wrong.
The biggest challenge is getting it to pass the emissions test every 2 years.
My recomendation is don't worry about the P0410 or P1411 codes unless you are burning oil.
Jack
Six years later and 114k miles, the engine is still running strong. It doesn't burn any oil and I don't even notice the CEL any more that is always on. I occasionally check the codes to make sure it is only a P0140 or P1411 (Secondary Air Injection) and that nothing else is wrong.
The biggest challenge is getting it to pass the emissions test every 2 years.
My recomendation is don't worry about the P0410 or P1411 codes unless you are burning oil.
Jack
07-08-2007, 10:40 PM
#28
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Thanks for the comments and help. I will check for a vacuum hose off or leaking then leave it alone. The car does not use more than normal oil and feels very good. I is my 4th 911, last being a 95 and I do not think I have power loss. If I find a hose is the problem I will post as it may help someone else.
07-08-2007, 11:05 PM
#29
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My CEL light came on about 2 months ago with 46,000 miles on the car. I took it in to my mechanic (Ken Rosegay @ Zuffenhausen Motors, Scotttsdale, AZ). Ken checked the car and it was running great so he reset the computer and told me this was likely a temporary fix and that the CEL light would likely come back on. Ken indicated that he thought it was an O2 sensor issue and that it would only be a problem when it needs to be inspected for new tags.
The CEL light has not come back on since!
The CEL light has not come back on since!
02-26-2012, 11:15 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
so what are the risks of ignoring SAI port issue? I have had code P1411 now for 1,5 years and have tried revving extra hard (and several track events) and am contemplating having my shop fix / clean the ports. What can it cause, potential overhaul being needed if ignored too long? I live in Ohio so don't have to emissions inspections to worry about...