Steering wheel is off center
06-22-2007, 06:02 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Steering wheel is off center
I am not being **** here, but a couple of months ago I had the Bilstein HD's installed, and the difference was great. But the second thing I noticed was the steering wheel was off to the right. Under advise I left it for a few miles for the suspension to settle, and we tried again. This guy has a really fancy allignment machine too. He tried again and told me it was sweet again. Great. Driving home and it's exactly the same. Go back yesterday and he tried again. This time he got it he said! Right. Not as bad but still off to the right. The car drives great but the steering wheel should be strait......right?
I gave him the factory specs which match to his specs. Any ideas?
This is the trouble with living in rural new Zealand.
TIA
I gave him the factory specs which match to his specs. Any ideas?
This is the trouble with living in rural new Zealand.
TIA
06-22-2007, 06:17 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Wow, it shouldn't be that hard... the only thing that he can't do on the align. rack is account for your tire condition but that is a long shot...
If you like, you can take matters into your own hands and remove the steering wheel, move it over one tooth on the spline, drive, repeat if necessary.
The spline on the steering column is pretty "fine" and could solve your problem. If it is really close to being centered moving the wheel may put it off the opposite direction.
Otherwise, he can try again... and don't leave until you are happy!
When mine was aligned/corner balanced I sat in the car and held the wheel centered for him.
If you like, you can take matters into your own hands and remove the steering wheel, move it over one tooth on the spline, drive, repeat if necessary.
The spline on the steering column is pretty "fine" and could solve your problem. If it is really close to being centered moving the wheel may put it off the opposite direction.
Otherwise, he can try again... and don't leave until you are happy!
When mine was aligned/corner balanced I sat in the car and held the wheel centered for him.
06-22-2007, 06:21 PM
#3
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Have the tech drive the car around a bit to make sure it's correct... hard to tell where it's pointed with the steering wheel straight unless it's actually moving!
-or-
It is an iterative process... so it should be spot on after a few more visits...
-or-
It is an iterative process... so it should be spot on after a few more visits...
06-22-2007, 06:24 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
The fix is painfully simple. He should just get underneath and tighten one nut on one side of the steering rack (I think that's it) and loosen the opposite side the exact amount. I've watched my tech do it in, oh, about 16 seconds. The problem is that it's tough to turn both nuts exactly the same amount, so your toe will possibly/probably get screwed up. It should really be done on the alignment rack. It's also an iterative process, so it's not the easiest thing. Mine's crooked, and I just live with it until the next alignment time.
Maybe your guy simply isn't turning the nuts far enough, thinking that it's more sensitive that it really is.
Maybe your guy simply isn't turning the nuts far enough, thinking that it's more sensitive that it really is.
06-22-2007, 06:28 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks guys. I like the idea of sitting in the car and holding wheel even. makes sence. Still a pain in the **** though I reckon. This ALWAYS happens when i get someone to work on my cars, no matter who it is, if it's a 911 they can't seem to get it right.
I have a track day next month so might leave it until then and get him to try for a 4th time! Unbelievable.
I have a track day next month so might leave it until then and get him to try for a 4th time! Unbelievable.
06-22-2007, 06:30 PM
#6
Race Car
Eric is right, just miniscule adjustments to the toe on both ends will center the steering without having to do a full alingment. I dealt with the same issue after my HD's and corner balance was done.
What was making it harder is that once the car is off the rack and you sit on it, the toe may change slightly as the car now sits lower, thus throwing the toe aligment slightly off.
You may want to sit in the car while the car is on the rack or have weights on the driver seat. I took my car with half tank of gas as well.
What was making it harder is that once the car is off the rack and you sit on it, the toe may change slightly as the car now sits lower, thus throwing the toe aligment slightly off.
You may want to sit in the car while the car is on the rack or have weights on the driver seat. I took my car with half tank of gas as well.
06-22-2007, 07:42 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Just of curiositity, if the steering wheel is moved one spline to correct a non-level condition( with all due caution to battery/airbag), how much does this move the circumference? 1/2"? .... 1"? ....
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06-23-2007, 01:00 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Garth S
Just of curiositity, if the steering wheel is moved one spline to correct a non-level condition( with all due caution to battery/airbag), how much does this move the circumference? 1/2"? .... 1"? ....
06-23-2007, 01:03 AM
#10
Three Wheelin'
I have the exact same problem, but didn't notice it until I changed my steering wheel to a Momo a few months later. At first I thought that is was my alignment of the steering wheel hub adapter, but moving the wheel one spline was too much. Because a few months had passed, I felt it was too late to take it back to the shop that did the alignment. Since it is such a small amount, I have just been living with it. I can understand your frustration.
06-27-2007, 10:00 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Well, here is some feedback 
. My wheel was also slightly off center after a recent alignment, and I centered it by doing the following:
From underneath, with a very small flat file ( the 4-5" gunsmith file kits are cheap & invaluable) run a light score across 1 of the 6 'hex' corners on the inner tie rod. This is 17mm, and you have now made one of two reference points! Jump across the 22mm locknut to the threaded rod of the outer tie rod half ... and drag the file lengthwise across the threads exactly in line with the score on the hex point.
These two 'shiny' marks reference the correct toe-in ... and allow you to return there even if one screws up.
With flat wrenches, counter hold the 17mm and loosen the 22mm nut. To adjust, one turns the inner 17mm hex in reference to the marked outer tie rod. The outer rod has a thread pitch of 1.5mm and 1/6 of a turn equates to ~10mm movement on the circumference of the steering wheel provided one side is lengthened exactly the same amount the opposing side is shortened!!
To rotate the steering wheel position clockwise, the left tie rod must be shortened .... and the right lengthened.
Yeah, it's 'wordy' .... but easy to mess up if imprecise - so excuse the prose. As is evident, a small change has a reasonably large effect on the wheel .... so the caution is that any small imbalance in the adjustments left to right can also alter the total toe-in setting.
Be careful in the measurements - and this works.
. My wheel was also slightly off center after a recent alignment, and I centered it by doing the following:From underneath, with a very small flat file ( the 4-5" gunsmith file kits are cheap & invaluable) run a light score across 1 of the 6 'hex' corners on the inner tie rod. This is 17mm, and you have now made one of two reference points! Jump across the 22mm locknut to the threaded rod of the outer tie rod half ... and drag the file lengthwise across the threads exactly in line with the score on the hex point.
These two 'shiny' marks reference the correct toe-in ... and allow you to return there even if one screws up.
With flat wrenches, counter hold the 17mm and loosen the 22mm nut. To adjust, one turns the inner 17mm hex in reference to the marked outer tie rod. The outer rod has a thread pitch of 1.5mm and 1/6 of a turn equates to ~10mm movement on the circumference of the steering wheel provided one side is lengthened exactly the same amount the opposing side is shortened!!
To rotate the steering wheel position clockwise, the left tie rod must be shortened .... and the right lengthened.
Yeah, it's 'wordy' .... but easy to mess up if imprecise - so excuse the prose. As is evident, a small change has a reasonably large effect on the wheel .... so the caution is that any small imbalance in the adjustments left to right can also alter the total toe-in setting.
Be careful in the measurements - and this works.
05-24-2008, 11:07 PM
#12
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Just to share with other rennlisters, who also want to adjust the tie rod to center the steering wheel.
I have taken digital photos of before and after photo of the (off center) steering position while the car was going straight (at > 70mph) on a straight stretch and flat section of the highway, they are taken before and after 2 complete turns of the tie rod nuts(on each ends). ( I use excessive # of turns just so I can reduce the +/- errors for the next step)
By using Photoshop to measure the delta angle difference, I determined the change is about 24 degree.
So I deduce that each one-sixth turn of the hex nut results in 2 degrees of change.
For those who don't want to think too hard, if your steering wheel is off to the right by 6 degree, you will need to lossen/extend the left tie rod by half a turn and shorten the right tie rod by half a turn.
If you do want to measure the angle, make sure your photo is completely "level" by rotating the entire picture first, then measure the angle. you can use a plain-old protractor on paper, but doing this is in Photoshop is a lot more accurate. ( using the measuring tool, to drag a reference line, while taking note of the info window)
I also did some additional calculations to cross check with Garth's # right above this post.
The Diameter of the OEM steering wheel is about 38cm; thus each 1/6 turn is 2degree and is equal to 6.62 mm (38*r*2/360), it is two thirds of Garth #s above.
It will be nice if someone else can validate this for all of us.
In any case, it is better to calculate the angle not the in cm, to accomodate all sizes of non-oem steering wheels.
I have taken digital photos of before and after photo of the (off center) steering position while the car was going straight (at > 70mph) on a straight stretch and flat section of the highway, they are taken before and after 2 complete turns of the tie rod nuts(on each ends). ( I use excessive # of turns just so I can reduce the +/- errors for the next step)
By using Photoshop to measure the delta angle difference, I determined the change is about 24 degree.
So I deduce that each one-sixth turn of the hex nut results in 2 degrees of change.
For those who don't want to think too hard, if your steering wheel is off to the right by 6 degree, you will need to lossen/extend the left tie rod by half a turn and shorten the right tie rod by half a turn.
If you do want to measure the angle, make sure your photo is completely "level" by rotating the entire picture first, then measure the angle. you can use a plain-old protractor on paper, but doing this is in Photoshop is a lot more accurate. ( using the measuring tool, to drag a reference line, while taking note of the info window)
I also did some additional calculations to cross check with Garth's # right above this post.
The Diameter of the OEM steering wheel is about 38cm; thus each 1/6 turn is 2degree and is equal to 6.62 mm (38*r*2/360), it is two thirds of Garth #s above.
It will be nice if someone else can validate this for all of us.
In any case, it is better to calculate the angle not the in cm, to accomodate all sizes of non-oem steering wheels.
Last edited by Novice; 05-25-2008 at 12:39 PM.
05-26-2008, 05:22 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
I had the same problem, probably due to the steering column issue (tsb)
The problem is if you mark the bolt on the tie rod, it is so sensitive that difference in tightening the locking nut on it,
will make it deviate several points on the alignment machine, ask me how I know.
Since I did the alignment (excluding kinematic done at dealer), I proceeded as follows.
If your stereing wheel is off center to the right, by lets say 1 inch on the circumference of the steering wheel,
install the alignment material on the car, block the steering wheel with the blocking handle, and shorten the right tie rod by half a turn, and tighten.
Now the problem is the machine will read that your right wheel is offset.
You have two choices:
Either you adjust the left wheel by taking into consideration the right wheel measures.
Or you reset the alignment program and the machine will consider the left wheel offset and you adjust.
Then try the car on a flat asphalt highway at 120 kmh.
What I mean is that without an alignment machine, if you take half a turn on the left and give
half a turn on the right, your front toe measures will be all fuced up
The problem is if you mark the bolt on the tie rod, it is so sensitive that difference in tightening the locking nut on it,
will make it deviate several points on the alignment machine, ask me how I know.
Since I did the alignment (excluding kinematic done at dealer), I proceeded as follows.
If your stereing wheel is off center to the right, by lets say 1 inch on the circumference of the steering wheel,
install the alignment material on the car, block the steering wheel with the blocking handle, and shorten the right tie rod by half a turn, and tighten.
Now the problem is the machine will read that your right wheel is offset.
You have two choices:
Either you adjust the left wheel by taking into consideration the right wheel measures.
Or you reset the alignment program and the machine will consider the left wheel offset and you adjust.
Then try the car on a flat asphalt highway at 120 kmh.
What I mean is that without an alignment machine, if you take half a turn on the left and give
half a turn on the right, your front toe measures will be all fuced up
Last edited by geolab; 05-26-2008 at 07:08 AM.
05-26-2008, 06:52 AM
#15
Just a thought, if he has a fancy machine and therefore should know how to use it, perhaps he has adjusted the geometry right each time and the problem lies in the rubber part of your track rods?
Was this part changed when you HD's were done? Stiffer suspensions put a greater load on other suspension parts, if these were marginal then it's likely the stiffer stuff will kill it. I've heard a few stories of people having a hard time getting the steering wheel to align and that it soon goes off centre. This was usually traced back to the track rod rubber being worn and giving differing adjustments.
Might be worth a look.
Regards
GR
Was this part changed when you HD's were done? Stiffer suspensions put a greater load on other suspension parts, if these were marginal then it's likely the stiffer stuff will kill it. I've heard a few stories of people having a hard time getting the steering wheel to align and that it soon goes off centre. This was usually traced back to the track rod rubber being worn and giving differing adjustments.
Might be worth a look.
Regards
GR