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Adjusting handling with alignment?

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Old 01-08-2009 | 01:04 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by TheOtherEric
You can't really say that. Tire grip is like a bell curve when plotted against pressure. When underinflated, you lose grip due to all the sidewall flex. When overinflated, you lose grip due to the narrower contact patch.

Last year I asked Randy Pobst when we were at the Nurburgring how I could get my rented Mini Cooper to oversteer more. I figured he'd know since he was driving a similar F/F in World Challenge. His response: "throw in another 15 psi in the rears... that's what we have to do in World Challenge".
Eric, that's exactly what I was trying to say. There seems to be a range where tires are generally happy. Say, 30-40 psi for a street tire.

I find that, generally, increasing pressure by 1-2 psi on the lower end of that range leads to increased grip. I run my CSP Miata on V710s at 26 front, 28 rear for the past 4-5 seasons. The Azenis on Miata like slightly higher pressure, 30/32.

Maybe I should put it different way, more in line with bell curve idea. If you find damn near ideal pressure, increasing from there will lead to slower loss of grip, then decreasing from there. At least in my experience. This is for 1-2-3 psi increments. People like Mark Daddio shove 65psi into the rear tires of a Neon to make it rotate. And boy, does it really rotate. Street BMWs, which I drive periodically, seem ti like 40/32 or so to rotate, for example. Increasing rear pressure leasds to the car wanting to go straight.
Old 01-08-2009 | 01:06 AM
  #32  
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Oh, yeah? I asked Michael Schumacher when we were at Spa how I could get my Bugatti Vayron to understeer more. His response: Have your damn mechanic put softer compound tires on the front!"
I think I just wet my pants
Old 01-08-2009 | 01:26 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Mark in Baltimore
Oh, yeah? I asked Michael Schumacher when we were at Spa how I could get my Bugatti Vayron to understeer more. His response: Have your damn mechanic put harder compound tires on the front!"


j/k, Eric. That's cool that you got to talk with Pobst at the Ring.
You're just jealous that I got to drive around in a Mini for a week.
Old 01-08-2009 | 01:47 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by TheOtherEric
You're just jealous that I got to drive around in a Mini for a week.
You're 1/3 correct. I'm jealous that you were at the Ring and got a chance to talk with Pobst! Pretty effing cool.
Old 01-08-2009 | 05:34 AM
  #35  
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If you're looking for a bit more oversteer, before playing with the alignment you may want to try stiffening the rear TT sway bar. Cost to do this would not be significant. IMHO you should play with alignment and tire pressures last for "fine-tuning".
Old 01-08-2009 | 10:52 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by David in LA
If you're looking for a bit more oversteer, before playing with the alignment you may want to try stiffening the rear TT sway bar. Cost to do this would not be significant. IMHO you should play with alignment and tire pressures last for "fine-tuning".
+1 There were a couple others who mentioned a larger rear bar, too, and I agree. I put in an M030 rear bar (20mm) while keeping the standard (non M030) front bar. With the car lowered to the bottom of Sport range, the least amount of camber on the rear we could get was 1.4 degrees, but the mechanic put in the "regular" amount of front camber ~(1/5 degree, IIRC) and the car understeers a bit more than I'd like when driving somewhat aggressively on the street. Some day, I'll go back and have them put in something closer to RS alignment specs in the front (1.1 or 1.2 degrees, IIRC).

If you already have US M030, the Euro Turbo rear bar (21mm) will help, as others have noted.

It's relatively inexpensive and a very quick and simple DIY to change out a rear bar.

Last edited by jimbo3; 01-08-2009 at 11:18 AM.
Old 01-08-2009 | 12:32 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by jimbo3
+1 There were a couple others who mentioned a larger rear bar, too, and I agree....It's relatively inexpensive and a very quick and simple DIY to change out a rear bar.
No need to even buy a new rear sway bar...there is just enough room to drill an extra whole closer to the center of the bar....move the drop link over and this will stiffen the sway bar. Minimal cost
Old 01-12-2009 | 05:49 PM
  #38  
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Thanks for the informative discussion/suggestions all, much appreciated.

Originally Posted by David in LA
No need to even buy a new rear sway bar...there is just enough room to drill an extra whole closer to the center of the bar....move the drop link over and this will stiffen the sway bar. Minimal cost
This is a good idea and would not cost anything...worth a try to see how it changes the car. I have M030 front/rear so this or the 21mm bar would be my next step. Any idea how much this would stiffen things? Would it make it equivilent to a 21 or even stiffer? I know this is a complete guess but...



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