Rick K

Has anyone had their '95 993 lowered w/ 18" wheels on the car? Was eyeballing the clearance todayin the rear and I'm worried about potential rubbing. Would rather not roll the fenders if I don't have to.

Also, for anyone interested in bringing up the '95 993 rear suspension problems again.... (I have an early '95 w/ 93,XXX miles on it, silver, C2), I'm about to find out this week if this is actually a real problem or not.

I bought the car a month ago and it has been in the shop for 95% of the time (had a thorough PPI/leakdowns done on the car prior to purchase (engine is perfect), anticipated fixing some somewhat minor things like the CV boots, oil sender unit, worn rotors/pads, alignment, etc. - and negotiated the price accordingly). The PO had an fairly extensive "extended warranty" on the car and we had it transferred into my name.

When the car was delivered, I got the most of the fixes mentioned above addressed except for the rotors/pads and alignment as I was going to wait until the first DE to do so (and so my wife didn't kill me when she saw the bill for the fixes ).

When I picked up the car after the fixes, I was taking a weekend trip and noticed the car wanted to "twist" when I got on the brakes...and in a turn over 50mph, if I got off the gas at the anywhere near the apex, the car would feel like it was getting loose. It got to the point about 60 miles into the trip that I had the backend start wagging on me at highway speed when I was driving in a straight line and when I exited the highway going as slow as 25-30mph...so much so that I had the car towed back to the shop (thought I was loosing a wheel at first, pulled over, wheels were on tight).

Took it to my local p-car wrench, he went over the car's suspension w/ a magnifying glass and couldn't find a thing wrong w/ it, everything was tight as a drum. He took the car out and couldn't replicate the feeling as I had but described the car as "squirrely".

I starting doing some research, saw that the car needed the front bracket for 18" wheels installed. Did that...no change.

Car was then aligned/cornered. A little better, but the car was still goofy.

There was some dry rot on the front A-arms and they gave a bit too much pulling on them by hand, so we replaced those (covered under the warranty).....car is still weird at speed and under braking.

Addressed rotors/pads and had brake fluid flushed. Car still weird when I come off the gas hard over 60mph...and still wants to twist when I come on the brakes at a higher speed (I think I may have a grippy caliper somewhere in addition to the rear suspension problem...or one of the shocks isn't loading correctly when I come off the gas and the weight shifts forward.)

This week, I'm going to have the rear suspension components changed out (per Joel Reiser's PCA comments and the thread on this forum - all covered under the warranty, thank god) and may put new springs on the car to lower it - also will have the calipers looked at. Lots of money spent on the car, but good news is that not much of it wasn't expected and most expensive items were covered under the warranty. Stay tuned.

fast_freddy

I'm running 18's, 225/40 Front, 285/30 rear car is lowered with Bilstein HD's and H&R springs with no rubbing whatsoever. the car is on the "lower" side of things too. The only issue I have had with the lowering is that I have to approach steep drives at an angle and my front splitter protects the front protection bar sometimes rather than the other way around. No rear "wag" either although I did have some rear suspension bits replaced at the time of the lowering and did have a problem with the first two alignments where I went through my rear tires like kleenex. When I had a my top end re-build done when he did a complete corner balance/alignment and I have no issues in the six months since.

Rick Sylvestri

Sounds like your hitting all the right areas of the car. Are the shocks new? You might want to find a GOOD 993 race shop and have them look at your alignment #'s
I bought mine about a 1-1/2 years ago with the MO3O w/ h.d. Bilsteins and before any D.E's ot TT's I had an independant shop that was knowledgable with the 993 alignment for street/ track set up.

Mine is a May 94 build date C4. I have never experianced any tail wag, which will happen under acceleration or under hard braking. Mines been rock solid for all the events I've done and to 150 mph in turn 1 at Fontana.
Hope you figure this out.

Rick K

Thanks for the comments guys. I just was recently in a 73.5T and then an 80SC w/ Euro ride height...both handled like they were on rails but I began to itch for a little more muscle and a smoother shift.

The 993 certainly delivers that...but w/ US spec ride height the car feels like its on stilts and almost feels like a jack-in-the-box over bumps and grooves. Thats an extreme example, but thats the best description of the feeling that I get in addition to the car feeling likes its about to break loose - probably a sign of worn shocks as well, Rick.

Gotta believe that new rear suspension components ('96-'98) and springs/shocks/lowering should solve any and all problems.

Mark in Baltimore

Rick,

Welcome to the 993 board!

No tail wag issues with my 18"-shod, late model build '95.

Maybe all of these problems are related to worn out suspension bushings. You said that the front A-arms were dry-rotted. I assume you mean the bushings? Before changing A-arms, I would change out the bushings for either fresh OEM's or polyurethane bushings, if anyone makes them. I know you have a warranty, but for the vast majority out there, no such safety net exists.

Where are you located? I assume your mechanic knows how to properly set up a 993 and the kinematic toe?

Rick K

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I've been lurking around the 993 forum at Rennlist for a bit after some Dorki's pointed me in this direction.

I'm located in Rosslyn, VA. The alignment was addressed by some pretty reputable shops around the DC area (I've taken the car to two, spreading some business around to keep competition high and costs down ).

Yes, the bushings up front had dry rot, swapped the A-arms and bushings - although the car was showing the back end weirdness, thought maybe bad A-arms/bushings up front may be causing the car to dart back and forth and throwing the rear end out. No such luck.

Many have told me how sensitive the toe settings are on the 993, but have a tough time believing that the car being out of alignment can cause such a severe tail wag like the one I experienced at highway and slow speed. It would be more understandable if I was at the limit on the track.

If you have some time, I'm probably taking the car to the shop tomorrow night after work - if you're interested in driving a car that may be demonstrating this behavior, before it gets addressed - come on down.

95FL993CAB

Rick
I will second Fast_Freddy with the exception that I do not have any issues with tire wear (so far). I would STRONGLY suggest that while you are doing the work under warranty, you pony up for the difference and lower your car. What a difference.
Good luck and welcome
Ron

Rick K

Thanks, Ron. Agreed.

DJF1

My 95, lowered to RS specs with 18" RS Speedlines and lots of negative camber. No rubbing, no major bump steer, no issues with driveways etc ( the FPB bar from Gert helps alot).

black ice

Do you know the specs on your alignment?

RallyJon

Sounds to me like the kinematic toe is off. Not to sound like a broken record, but the difference bewteen:

Before: new struts, springs, factory alignment, KT way off and
After: same with KT adjusted

was enormous. Prior, I felt like I was driving some sort of drift car. Oversteer anytime, on demand. Slight trail braking, there goes the back end. On the throttle a tiny bit hard, hanging it out. Cornering over a crest, and a big jump to the side. Downhill off camber and I'd leave puckers on the seat.

After, this car is so tame it's almost dull.

Any chance that this shop you're using doesn't have the tool or doesn't know how to use it?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Rick:

I'd concur with all of the advice posted above and I admire your tenacity to find the source of your handling problem.

I'd like to reinforce how incredibly sensitive these cars are to alignment settings and will unequivocably say that if the overall alignment is not spot on the mark, these cars can handle just as you describe. 993's simply do not suffer fools in the alignment department and there are plenty of those, I'm afraid.

David in LA

sounds like bad shocks or poor alignment/kinematic toe adjustment

Bill Verburg

Nominal suspension components are a good place to start(the rubber ends do deteriorate), good shocks/springs and setup will make the car more competent than most drivers.

Rick K

Thanks for the advice guys.

To your comments about the toe settings - I use some pretty reputable shops around the DC metro area - guys that have been servicing my 73.5T, 80SC, and many late models for others.

Getting these issues addressed this week, I'm excited to get this car straightened out.