quantimouse

It seems that the spread is really wide. $38k for a 90k mile car with a CEL light vs. $65k for an 18k mile car in presumably perfect condition.

I dunno what makes less sense, the former or the latter.

Maybe I just don't love this car enough to spend that kind of money. I might just be better off with a new 997.

Joe S.

For a daily driver, somewhere in the middle probably makes more sense...

177mph

Youre talking about 2 very different cars. I think you need to decide exactly what youre looking for. I had been thinking about selling mine recently (decided to keep it) and was going to ask 47k (black/tan, sport seats, turbo tail 45k). It depends - very much - on the condition of the car.

Randy 1

Maybe I'm a little loco, but with such an expensive fix imminent, doesn't that price seem a little on the high side for a steed with 90K on the clock? While the cost of fixing the valve guides is debateable, there's little debate that such a fix requires a discount (well, Traffic53 isn't so sure...).

I'm probably working with imperfect information; what does this CT C4S have on it that would justify the price?

Pete

I haven't seen many references in the short time I've been on here to Bruce Anderson's market updates in Excellence but I've follwed these pretty closely for the past few years in shopping for my 993 and compared them with the readers' sales reports and have found them to be pretty reliable. The Feb 2006 edition has the 964 and 993 update and he shows $34523 as low and $44950 as excellent for a '97 C4S. With 20K miles, he would add 10%, putting the excellent figure at $49,396 so I think $50K is a very reasonable number and probably wouldn't go over this by much myself. Of course there are always "beyond excellent" cars for which any kind of market update or book values don't apply. Then too, there are always buyers with more money than brains!

My Jan 07 Hemmings lists a one-owner black/cashmere '97 C4S with 38K by PAR for $53,900 in NY, and a white/black '97 C4S with 51K for $43,900 by Chequered Flag in CA. Both cars described as mint. Check out Willhoit in MO. He always has some C2S and C4S with low mileage, but I think his prices are pretty high.

HTH
Pete

DC from Cape Cod

I've not seen many Rennlisters put a lot of stock in Anderson's figures. I would not use his numbers unless I was buying and even then it would leave a dirty taste in my mouth.

quantimouse

Can you explain why? Just curious.

DC from Cape Cod

I don't believe his numbers accurately reflect the prices of any 993 that would meet my buying or selling criteria. I think his numbers are broad generalizations of cars that most of us would not consider as being "up to snuff".

I do think he is more accurate than the standard pricing guides but you can toss his numbers if you have, or are looking for, an immacualte example. In other words, most of the owners here do own cars that exceed his standard parameter.

mrsullivan

Lot's of great info here, so I won't try to pile on too much... a couple of points from another Rennlister that follows prices pretty closely...

- you wont get a silver/black 6speed 98 993 S with 20k miles and great condition for $50k... that price is closer to what I would expect to sell mine for with 49k miles (2 owner car and I am insane about the condition that I keep it in)


- you will either need to adjust expectations up closer to $60k for the car you describe (i am talking truly mint, 1-2 owners, low mileage, etc.)
OR
- you need to consider something with more mileage or a NB car instead

mrsullivan

agree... this is widely known... the Excellence numbers dont reflect what really transpires on Rennlist, EBay, the Highline dealers, etc. We know this from many many posts on the subject with both buyers and sellers disclosing transaction pricing...

quantimouse

So why does Excellence bother at all? Why not bother if you're not going to get it right?

DFC4S

thought i'd chime in... i just purchased a 97 c4s with 27k miles. silver with black interior. interior and exterior are 9+/10. stock. i had specific req'mts with this purchase as it's a car i expect to enjoy for a long time to come. i paid ~$60k which seemed like a bit of a premium based on discussions here, but i got what i wanted. it all depends on the car and individual...

Pete

You may be right Jonathan but I've followed the Readers Sales Reports in Excellence pretty closely as well as the Market Updaters and I find a pretty good correlation , considering the huge range in variables, not the least of which is location. Meaning no disrespect, I think the Rennlist prices that I have seen tend to be on the high side, probably reflecting the emotional attachment that Rennlisters, myself included, feel for our cars.

Another big variable is whether the car is for sale from an individual or a dealer. I've occasionally seen a non-Porsche dealer have a pretty good deal on a Carrera. Last fall there was an Audi dealer in the Chicagoland area who had a 996 C4S for something like $37K which I thought was a very good price even though the car had 70K miles.

Pete

mrsullivan

I sort of agree with you... I think.

I would argue that 70% (my made up number) of the 993s out there for sale are average and that Readers Sales Report in Excellence reflects prices for those cars pretty accurately.

I think that you are right that Rennlisters are emotional about these cars, but I think that it results in a factual, measurable result -- we seek out and purchase the very best out there (the other 30%).

The top 30% of 993s have characteristics like the following:

- 1 or 2 owners
- low mileage, but hyper maintained mechanically
- all original equipment, unmolested
- popular color combinations
- full documented history
- no collision or paint repair whatsoever
- cosmetically perfect, with minimal wheel rash or paint nicks, etc.
- more

So I think that I agree with you that Excellence is accurate for average cars, but I dont agree that they reflect the prices of more perfect specimens... not just a rennlist thing -- check out the highline dealers and what they are asking (and getting) for the top cars, also ebay, also autotrader, etc.

Just my .02

Alfie

I'm thinking somwhere in the mid 50's if it s very nice. I would reserve the $60k mark for a 98.