IamSMC

While searching for the most non evasive harness install, came across this sub strap installation picture posted on Pelican and the poster's owe website.

http://www.gagme.com/greg/911/hacks/...=harness12.jpg

It appears that the driver would sit on the sub strap. It seems it would come up from the crotch and attach to the lap belts.

Anybody know if this is correct? Is this safe at all?

geolab

From the look of it, I wouldn't want to be held by the back rest only.
Probably would be safer in a four door, with an immobile back rest.
But in our 993's, the back rest is mobile, and holds by two hooks as you know.

IamSMC

Found this post:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=32

Mentions about sitting on the sub strap.

Maybe irrevelant since the thread mentions that some PCA regions will not allow harnesses without proper race seats.

911

Personally, I would not take any chances and just drill the necessary holes for anti-sub belts.

Flying Finn

If you install 6 point harness, sitting on the sub straps is not recommended, I'd not do it. And like you have found out, some regions don't allow you to have harness without proper seat.

Personally I would not do 6-pt. harness without the bucket seats and roll bar, those three go toogether IMO.

I just installed 6-point Sparco harnesses, I mounted the subs through the bottom even though that's maybe not the most optimal way to so it. Porsche did that on 993 RS so I thought it's good enough. You obviously need to have bigass washer/plate underneath the car when you do that, bolting just through the bottom pan would ripp iof easily if you chrash.

When you mount through the bottom, you need to relocate the ECU & if you have HIFI, the amp under the seats. Not a bog deal, just moving them a little is all you need to do.
I have photos of all that above if you're interested.

Monique

I too have pics of a 6 point Sabelt install. The floor bolts are on either side of the ECU, thus avoiding the need to move it elsewhere.

Cheers

IamSMC

On my 930, I had tried two different harness installs. First was a non drill install where I had used loops that attached between the slider and the floor through the front bolts of the slider. And for the lap belts the same loops used at the side where the factory seats are attached. Lastly, the shoulder belts attached to the rear seat belt mounts up an over a harness guide bar. The other method was simply bolts thru the floor with the big washers.

What I noticed was that since I had the factory 930 sport seats (and I guess it will be the same for regular seats) is that the sub strap though attached to the floor and run up and over the front of the seat actually brings the lap belts out of the correct position when you're using it. Some threads have already mentioned that issue.

Also for driver's ed event, I've also heard that to use 4 point is Ok since the factory seat doesn't have a hole for the sub strap like a dedicated sport/race seat/shell.

Its just that with my 993tt, I really want to avoid drilling thru the floor. So I'm thinking BK harness truss with 4 point harnesses. Harness truss because its removable for a double duty car.

Flying Finn

You can do the "non drilling" with the sub bar that's mounted between the seat mounting points.

But again, do it right by having bucket seats and roll bar (you can get Heigo or DAS bolt it bar so there's no drilling needed for that either) with the 6-ponint harness, forget the 4-point or doing 6-point with regular seat.

Seriously, it's your health, or could be even worse, your life, that we're talking here, how much is it worth?
(race track's concrete wall doesn't know whether you're doing an occasional DE or racing when you hit it)

KOAN

I converted a 5 point to a 6 point installation by merely attaching both of the crotch attachments of the 6 point to the same "throught the floor eyelet" that I used for my 5 point. The two straps of the 6 point come through the same seat hole, so the angle of attachment to the cam on the belt would be the same, and straight. In fact, if you have widely spaced 6 point eyelets, the seat hole will cause the belt to be angled by the seat hole . I prefer the way the 6 point feels more than the 5 point.

Bull

AMEN!

Bull

Be very careful with what is "heard", and check with the organization that is running each event that you are attending. In our area, harness/seat/roll bar rules vary by organization, even by PCA Region. In my local Region (and some others) you wouldn't be allowed on track as described above.

TheOtherEric

I've never seen 6-pt straps mounted thru the back of the seat, but I've been told it's ok to run them under your legs and out the sides of the seat bottom. But Schroth doesn't recommend it, as you'll see on page 26 of their manual:
http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Co...structions.pdf

I agree with Schroth that it's not optimal, but it's definitely better than running the sub straps down the front (bad!) or using 4-pts (factory belts are safer than 4-pts IMHO since the design allows factory belts to tighten around your waist in a frontal collision, which helps prevent submarining).

IMHO it's a reasonable debate whether or not 6-pt harnesses are any safer than factory belts when you just have stock seats. There'll be lots of disagreement there. But whatever you do, don't run 4-pts. I hate to sound like one of the safety *****, but you really should get race seats with an opening in the seat bottom for sub belts.

mooty

do it right like finn mentioned.
you NEED roll bar, not harness bar.
you need proper seats, with harness guide holes.
anchor the belt to "proper" anchoring point, the best would be directly to chassis with backing plates, but then you are drilling holes there. i dont know what other proper ways are.

IamSMC

And to confuse the matter, on the preceding page 25, under Profi F-Models, describes "sitting on the sub straps".

And I agree with you in that 5/6 point harnesses with the stock seat might not be any MORE safer, if that, than stock 3 point.

But I remember reading that with stock Porsche seats, the shoulders straps should be the H-type to prevent the shoulder straps from seperating upon impact.

TheOtherEric

And to confuse things even more, your neck/chin could hit an H strap if you submarine in a frontal shunt. There's really no great solution with stock seats.