Monique

Hello TT,

Well planned slippery slope

When it come to the cage, I had a Heigo in my car (may yet put another back in...)

You have email with their catalog. Steel cage weighs 70 kgs and priced at Euro 806. Alu is 962.80. Both are FIA approved. Very sturdy cage.

Flying Finn

I also have Heigo and agree, it's a very good cage.

H20NOO

Of course, I had many of the same concerns and had no fewer than a dozen conversations with the U.S. distributor and the DyMag engineer, Bevis Musk. The wheels are TUV certified in Germany which, as you may know, is one of the most stringent quality/safety testing processes in the world. I went with 18's for better rim protection, ride quality, lighter weight, and greater choice of lower priced tires. Since I was one of the first U.S. customers, I negotiated a very good deal. From what I hear, they retail for about $9,000 USD a set. They take forever to get though. I ordered them on September 1. Supposedly, they shipped from England this week...

Here is a Q&A exchange with DyMag for your information:

Dear Matthew,

Thank you for your enquiry, please find below the answers you need plus attached is a brief explanation of how the wheels work on the car.


Are they durable enough for daily use on California roads with the typical potholes, expansion joints, small stones and debris?

Yes, they resist impact better than even magnesium, debris is less good to be honest, but a good tyre bead protector, such as on the Michelin Pilot SP or Yokohama work very well. You are not rallying the car I guess?

- Do they generate a resonant noise or “roar” that is transmitted into the vehicle?
No, carbon is very good noise insulator (carbon bicycle frames are very"quiet"), but you may find that the shock absorbers need to be softened as the reduced weight creates more grip.

N- Are they UV protected?
Yes, the material itself is very stable in UV, GM have tested the wheels in the USA and showed that it was significantly better then painted wheels.

- Can they be rebuilt?
Yes, but only at Dymag, we do not allow rebuild by anyone else as yet.

- Are they a 2-pc or 3-pc wheel?
2 piece, magnesium hub, carbon fibre rim.

- How is the hub mounted to the rim? Bonded? Bolted?
Bonded and bolted with a specially designed fastening system to allow for expansion within the wheel's temperature range.

- What is the factory warranty?
2 years, but lifetime for manufacturing defects.

Will a local tire shop, even a very good one, be able or WILLING to mount a set of tires?
Tyre fitting is no more difficult than any other lightweight wheel. Some care must be taken with the fitting table clamps and to ensure that tyre levers do not dig into the material. Trained tyre fitters have no problems at all.

Please let me know if you need further information,

With thanks and best regards,

Bevis Musk, Dymag

H20NOO

Since you are obviously a weight reduction junkie, I think you'll appreciate this info from DyMag as well:

Dymag carbon/magnesium car wheels

The new carbon/magnesium wheels were developed by Dymag for performance cars to achieve new standards of performance by achieving very low wheel weights and moments of inertia whilst retaining great strength and rigidity with the flexibility needed for both road and track use.

The wheels are made of a forged magnesium hub, designed to reduce the normal cast magnesium porosity to zero. The hub is then fastened to a carbon fibre rim by special coated titanium fasteners. The carbon rim is made from a very special process, developed by Dymag in the UK, using a solid metal mould which ensures that the wheels are consistently made to a very close tolerance of accuracy straight from the tooling. This also gives a very high quality durable finish which is resistant to brake dust, salt, ultra violet and the usual forms of corrosion encountered by race and road cars. Carbon fibre in this form is not onIy very strong, but is also quite resistant to shock and thus will withstand potholes better than magnesium. It will not shatter catastrophically as some have predicted – this is why carbon is used in formula one chassis and aeroplane wings.

The low weight but high stiffness of carbon fibre gives a very light weight rim to the wheel, significantly reducing the moment of inertia. This saves a considerable amount of power in turning the wheel. Consider that a standard Porsche 18” wheel weighs about 14kg, the Dymag carbon/magnesium equivalent weighs around 6kg saving about 32kg per car.

The effect on the car however, is more than the static weight saving. The moment of inertia calculation is based on the ratio of the mass multiplied by the square of the radius, meaning that as the diameter of the wheel increases then the greater the energy consumption of increased weight becomes. Therefore with the Dymag carbon/magnesium wheel the much reduced rim weight has the effect of at least 5 times the static weight reduction, meaning that the feel on the car performance is of taking out 2 large adult passengers!!

The effect of carbon/magnesium wheels when fitted to the car is to reduce the gyroscope effect of the wheel this gives the following effects:

1. Improved acceleration
2. Improved braking, reduced stopping distance
3. Lighter, sharper steering
4. Allows for softer damper settings giving more tyre contact & therefore better grip.
5. Tyre temperatures are more stable
6. improved wheel & tyre balancing

Added to which the looks are simply stunning! The centres can be colour coded to the vehicle for added impact too.

The wheels are not cheap, but then the performance advantages are the best value tuning to be bought for any vehicle, the materials used are of the highest quality and are new to the car market. Fit them and smile!!

For the ultimate in wheel technology Dymag also offer the wheels fitted with Tyre Watch wireless tyre temperature and pressure monitoring, using real time transducers with the tyre to alert the driver to punctures, overheating, freezing etc.

chris walrod

Since the car will be disassembled pretty far down to the bare tub, have you given thought to acid dipping the tub? There are downsides like possibly removing anti-rust treatments etc. Also stripping agents getting into places where paint spray cannot.

From experience in restoring older cars, you would be amazed at how much weight comes out of a shell post acid dipping!!

H20NOO

The most meaningful weight reduction will come from wheels, tires, brakes, clutch/pressureplate and flywheel. Lightweight rotating components like these create a multiplier effect on weight loss. I cannot imagine going to the trouble of removing sound deadening material for example, without first installing a lightweight flywheel.

Removing 50lbs of sound insulation may improve 0-60 times by .05 seconds. An RS flywheel removes about 15lbs of weight but more importantly, allows the car to rev much faster in low gears and would improve 0-60 by probably .5 seconds. A 10X improvement!

MC

David in LA

Chris - a few other suggestions:
- bin the stock mufflers for Fabspeed Supercups...yes I know HK has noise laws but Supercups are quieter than a lot of the cars that buzz around on Sunday AM...esp if you get the new version with the turndowns. Saves a lot of weght in the right place.
- carbon fiber seat shells and ditch the adjustable rail and bolt seats directly to the floor.
- RS heater bypass tube...never gets that cold in Hong Kong.
- carbon fiber decklid from MA Shaw
- the brand of tires can make a meaningful difference

Bill Verburg

RS heat works well even in the frosty Adirondaks

Caveman

RSR exhausts are very light compared to standard and if you are using them with sports cats they are quite loud but not deafeningly so...

AVoyvoda

Here are a few more suggestions (apologies if they have been mentioned before)

Lighter brakes (Brembo GTRs). Saves up to 30 lbs over the "big reds" and its unsprung weight, the right kind of weight saving.

Carbon-carbon clutch. - 15+ lbs

Lightweight starter - 5

RS glass sides and rear - 16

997 GT3 RS buckets, lightest seats made by Porsche

RS euro rear (only) bumper beam and bumper supports - 10.5

Exhaust, savings depends on type

Front and rear hood struts - 3.2

Replace front wings with CF -25.6

Delete rain gutters. A lot of work but makes the car look great.

I would think twice about taking out the underseal and all the insulation. Not only could you face rust issues, but also the interior noise and heat could become un-bearable. But if you are absolutely determined to delete, you might as well do some selective seam sealing to increase body strength.

RS man

Would it not be more cost-effective to buy an RS instead

Harry

TargaTango

Many thanks for all the great advice and comments. I have pored all over them.

Bill & Flying Finn – I am talking to my shop and will get new system of headers, 100 cell cats and mufflers. I do not want the system to be too loud. I will also dispense with all the heating paraphernalia as you suggest.

This project is already going way over what I thought was a staggering budget, so unfortunately AVoyvoda, no Brembo GTRs which I understand are just north of US$10k. The 31lbs weight saving in unsprung weight is so tempting but they are too much for me. Also Matt & H20N00, no Dymag wheels for me given their cost and their less than 16lbs weight saving.

Flying Finn, my mechanic advised me against taking out the sound insulation from the engine compartment. He said he does not think it weighs too much and he wants to use it to insulate the wiring from the considerable heat generated there.

AVoyvoda, my mechanic will be doing some body strengthening, but I do not think he was looking at “selective seam sealing”. I will be discussing that with him. You mentioned that I should think again about removing the underseal and all the interior insulation due to noise and heat considerations. The latter has already gone and the former is yet to be done. It is my understanding that this is how the RS came.

Caveman, some of my first posts were about the interior resonances issues I was having with RSRs on my then Targa Tiptronic. My experience was different to most on this board but not all. Some say that it was due to the Tiptronic. I lost a lot virtually having to give them away – David in LA is a hard man when it comes to money! I weighed my original mufflers and the RSR’s and from memory the weight saving was not significant.

RS Man, your query about buying an RS instead is a good one, and fully considered. Firstly, none come up in the Hong Kong market. They are so tightly held. It is estimated that if one did the asking price would be around USD130k. I would then want to spend a little on it like new wheels (love the RS look but those 18” booties are so so heavy at 116.5lbs, even heavier than my old overweight Targa 17” wheels at 103.5lbs which compare very badly to a set of Volk TE37s at 72lbs – thanks to a tremendous previous post of AVoyvoda listing all the wheel weights), new shocks & springs (technology in this area has come quite a way since then) and the Ninemeister head kit. This total is out of my range. To import from the UK (Hong Kong is right hand drive) would be impossible given a similar or higher selling price there, a crippling cost on first registering the car in Hong Kong which would increase the cost by 80% or so, and the clincher, a very probable inability for the RS to meet current Hong Kong emission standards (whenever you register a car here for the first time, if it was made within the last 25 years, it must meet the current standard and not the Hong Kong standard at the time it was made).

Oh and thanks to Jean-Pierre for the roll cage information, including the weight of the cage which I had underestimated. I have revised my net weight savings down to a little over 300lbs.

Thanks again for everyone's help including all those I have not mentioned.

The very best to you all for Christmas and the New Year,

jdistefa

Keep us posted, sounds like you are going to end up with a very special car.

AVoyvoda

Glad to be of help. I'd re-consider changing the rear bumper beam to the lighter RS version (as it's at the absolute extreme of the car and there every gram counts) and the carbon-carbon clutch which is not hugely more expensive than a new standard clutch but much lighter. Finally, if you want the absolute ultimate, have you considered:
a) sourcing a 2nd hand 4 channel ABS off a late 993 Turbo and upgrading yours? The 4 channel applies the ABS to each rear wheel individually, rather than both together and is a major improvement in braking and safety.
b) Fitting a Guard LSD, that will hugely improve cornering. Not expensive, about $2,500 and worth every penny.

TargaTango

AVoyvoda,

As usual some great suggestions.

I spoke with my mechanic. He was unaware of the lighter RS rear bumper beam. Is this a Porsche supplied part?

Would the carbon-carbon clutch be considerably more difficult to use on the street than the standard?

I will look into sourcing a second hand 4 Channel ABS.

The Guard LSD has already been purchased. Paul Guard is a pleasure to deal with and I look forward to using his LSD.

Thanks again and all the best,