axl911

Pricewise, what's the lowest anyone ever paid for a clean title 95?

Has anyone ever bought a 96 under 25K?

AndyT

95 had different rear suspension geometry. go to www.pca.org in the tech Q and A section and search for 993 rear suspension. there is a good deal on this subject

johnhh

I paid $18,000 for a 115,000 mile salvage title '95 in San Diego earlier this spring. The PPI by Black Forest could not find any reason for a salvage title, and those guys were very thurough. I have put 10,000 miles on it so far. Car runs great, uses a quart of oil every 2,000 mile. Only big work I have had to do is change the steering rack, back tires, and some spot rust under the windshield seals (front and back).

Mark in Baltimore

The 993 that John H sold was a bit over $16,000. I think it was a '95 and had a clean title with 200K on the clock.

AndyT

from PCA.org

Changing to the later style rear suspension control arms is an absolute necessity for a track, and is close to that on a street driven car. If you have ever felt the back end of the car start fighting back & forth, for example in a bump in a corner, then you are ready for the update.

The update consists of changing the camber arms, kinematic arms, and lower A-arms. The subframe upper arches were revised as well, however, a) they do not affect the suspension geometry, and b) it is virtually impossible to replace them with the engine in the car. Porsche says in fact not to do it. I've done it, and it takes some long hours of trial & error, and it is very very difficult to get it to fit nicely.

I don't know of a technical bulletin on this, all I have found is a statement that they made "suspension geometry changes". The following rear suspension parts were revised for 1996:

1- 993.331.041.02 A-arm L
1- 993.331.042.02 A-arm R
2- 993.331.045.03 Kinematic link L&R
2- 993.331.047.03 Camber link L&R
2- 993.331.131.06 Subframe arch L&R

The toe link was unchanged.

I would not change the arches unless the engine is out of the car.

A rear wheel alignment is required after changing these parts, and the rear toe specification was reduced from 15' per wheel to 10' per wheel as part of this modification.

I just did another one of these the other day, and noted that the rear toe was way way off after the change, like 70 minutes total toe out, which proves the geometry is in fact altered. After setting the camber and correcting (increasing) the toe to spec you are good to go.

Joel Reiser- Website 12/01 revised 11/2005


Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 11/21/2005

RallyJon

Oh cool. I get to spend another $3-5k. Thanks loads.

Bill Verburg

That is true, but on a 10year old car you should expect to have to replace most of the rubber suspension bushings any way. I know I did, and several others have had the same. You can replace w/ later factory parts, ERP parts or just the bushings w/ uniballs.

AndyT

"Oh cool. I get to spend another $3-5k. Thanks loads."

just trying to help....would you rather wreck ?

mborkow

SAI and OBDII is really only an emmisions issue (it isn't even really that, but that is how it becomes a problem). what kind of emmisions regulations do you have where you live? 95s will never get flagged for this problem because the OBD software will not detect it. 96-98 do have increased HP (12?) and bit more torque (i think there is bigger delta in the torque than the HP between the two versions).

RallyJon

Well, no, of course not.

I'm torn because, on the one hand, I have perceived an unsettled feeling from the back end in turns where cornering forces load up and then a bump or wallow upsets the balance.

Yet reading the archives, it seems that 1) nobody has actually done the updates, including many track junkies, 2) nobody has been able to find a dimensional difference between the new and old parts, and 3) Viperbob posted that the new parts are direct replacements, meaning they can't be dimensionally different or things would get pretty crazy with the new parts on one side and old on the other.

This is a big digression from this nice thread, but I would love to see something definitive rather than the "must do it"/"don't bother" opinions.

Bill Verburg

that is a big warning sign. Inspect or a have a knowledgeable tech inspect the suspension. You are headed for big trouble if you don't.

A 993 should be as solid as a rock

AndyT

Well not really a big digression. It is a known difference between 95 and 96-98 (part numbers are different) I do know people that have crashed 95 cars on the track and their explanation is the rear end felt like it stepped out on them while driving the line correctly.

I guess a good question would be. "how many '95 993 owners have done the change and have they noticed a difference"

richardew

I've owned a '95 C2 (purchased new in 1/95) and a '96 C4 Cab (purchased new in 5/96). I put 25K miles on the '95 and 183K on the '96. The vario ram makes a noticeable difference, but I've loved driving them both. I didn't run into the SAI issue until ~175K and the dealer attempted the cheaper repair to no avail. I wouldn't hesitate to buy either a '95 or a 96-98. Either way you're getting a great car. Other than routine maintenance, I've had almost nothing go wrong with my present car I had an O2 sensor replaced under warranty, immobilizer relay, right power seat cable, power top cable, SAI check valve and SAI relay replaced. I'm on my second clutch, second set of front brake rotors and pads, and still have the original rear pads. I've seen the speedo over 160 when the car had 100K+ miles on it, although it was a bit twitchy. The biggest problem with 993's is where to get the next one as they don't make them any more.
Rich
'96 C4 Cab/Iris Blue/Marble/Marble
183+K miles and still truckin

f8vr993

I bought 95 because it was the coolest color combo with lowest milage at best price I could afford at the time. If I'd had more money, I would have definitely went after 993tt!(future plan). As many of you have already said, 993 is and will always be the best 911 of all time. Forever!!!

The Brewmeister

I've heard that if the car is aligned to `96 and up specs that the problem will
be improved if not eliminated.