Going to Traffic Court. Advice needed.
09-20-2006, 07:43 PM
#16
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Definitely sounds like you should fight the ticket. Not sure how the cop could pace you in another lane with traffic unless everyone was going 80, which seems very unlikely. The cop probably had to speed up to close the distance between your vehicles before pulling you over, so it’s possible he could have used the accelerated speed as the basis for the ticket. This website has a bunch of info on fighting tickets. There's also a link on that site to NYS specific tips for fighting tickets, but you need membership access to view it. It looks like it costs $7 to access the member only stuff on that site for 24 hours.
09-20-2006, 08:06 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Im fighting a ticket right now through written declaration. As an attorney told me that you dont have anything to lose by exercising the law. I think this is your situation as well. Im not an attorney, so take it for what its worth, I read in the NOLO press book that the law is not binary. Its up to the judge to rule on the penalty for violating the law. It would be reasonable for the judge to rule less of a penalty for you if you were rolling thru a stop sign in your neighborhood at 3 am versus burning thru a red light on a congested intersection at rush hour. Of course, the judge can weigh the same penalty as well.
I understand that most the time you will lose a trial where its your word against the police. Best you can hope for is that its a no-show. 2nd best outcome is that the judge reduces the fine or allows traffic school to eliminate points.
I also heard that cops (at least the CHP here in CA) get paid overtime for court dates, so cops not showing up is rare. Explain your situation concisely - the judge will appreciate it. Also, make sure you keep repeating "safe & reasonable" in your defense. I could not move to the right lane cause it was not "safe and reasonable" to do so.
If the judge asks - "where you speeding?". Any speed you state over the posted limit admits your guilt. The judge if hes a jerk can rule at that moment. My response would be - as stated on the citation, I was doing 65, which was safe and resonable considering the volume of traffic and speed.
As a general rule when getting pulled over, I never state what speed I thought I was going - espcially if its over the posted limit. Any number you state admits guilt to the cop and will just incriminate you later in front of a judge. Remember that its a CITATION, you dont have to admit guilt to the cops, its up to the judge to rule whether you were violating the law and what the penalty shall be. Technically, you dont even have to sign the citation, if you were willing to be arrested, cuffed and take a trip down to city hall.
I understand that most the time you will lose a trial where its your word against the police. Best you can hope for is that its a no-show. 2nd best outcome is that the judge reduces the fine or allows traffic school to eliminate points.
I also heard that cops (at least the CHP here in CA) get paid overtime for court dates, so cops not showing up is rare. Explain your situation concisely - the judge will appreciate it. Also, make sure you keep repeating "safe & reasonable" in your defense. I could not move to the right lane cause it was not "safe and reasonable" to do so.
If the judge asks - "where you speeding?". Any speed you state over the posted limit admits your guilt. The judge if hes a jerk can rule at that moment. My response would be - as stated on the citation, I was doing 65, which was safe and resonable considering the volume of traffic and speed.
As a general rule when getting pulled over, I never state what speed I thought I was going - espcially if its over the posted limit. Any number you state admits guilt to the cop and will just incriminate you later in front of a judge. Remember that its a CITATION, you dont have to admit guilt to the cops, its up to the judge to rule whether you were violating the law and what the penalty shall be. Technically, you dont even have to sign the citation, if you were willing to be arrested, cuffed and take a trip down to city hall.
09-20-2006, 09:12 PM
#18
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I'm a Connecticut attorney and I occasionally help clients with speeding tickets. I find that I'm usually able to negotiate a deal with the prosecutor to dismiss the ticket conditioned upon my client paying a charitable contribution to a verified local 501 C3. I find my client's driving history is usually very important in being able to secure this kind of deal.
A local attorney should be able to advise you if the above disposition is possible or likely in the jurisdiction that you were ticketed.
Sorry my first post is a legal one. On a side note, I have a blast driving my 993 to closings and court!
A local attorney should be able to advise you if the above disposition is possible or likely in the jurisdiction that you were ticketed.
Sorry my first post is a legal one. On a side note, I have a blast driving my 993 to closings and court!
09-20-2006, 09:54 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
I would go the plea bargain route first, thats if they give you the opportunity to talk to the cop before court starts.
If you can't do that, I would let the cop give his testimony that he paced you in the opposite lane and then point out to the judge that what the cop wrote on the citation contradicts that. If he shows the judge he can't recall that portion of the ticket properly the judge should conclude that the rest is not valid. You should walk.
I beat a ticket in NYC based on testimony that did not match the citation two years ago.
If you can't do that, I would let the cop give his testimony that he paced you in the opposite lane and then point out to the judge that what the cop wrote on the citation contradicts that. If he shows the judge he can't recall that portion of the ticket properly the judge should conclude that the rest is not valid. You should walk.
I beat a ticket in NYC based on testimony that did not match the citation two years ago.
09-20-2006, 10:06 PM
#20
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Get a lawyer. There are more ways to beat a ticket than a no show cop. Also, the lawyers know the tendencies of the particular judges and magistrates. I am a criminal defense lawyer and when a friend or family member gets a ticket here in South Florida, I have a ticket specialist handle it. They handle these things everyday and are worth every penny of their fee. The rates here are fairly cheap (less than $100 even cheaper if you have friends!) Good luck!
Dan
BTW The troopers down here are just as bad, but this guy sounds like a real winner!
Dan
BTW The troopers down here are just as bad, but this guy sounds like a real winner!
09-20-2006, 10:16 PM
#22
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I'm a NY attorney and I do a fair amount of criminal work, including traffic violations. The range of possible dispositions depends mostly upon where the ticket is returnable, and the range is tremendous. Be especially careful around where you live because most Queens County tickets go to the NYS DMV's "Traffic and Parking Violations Agency" which is just a branch of the DMV. The "hearings" are held before a "Judicial Hearing Officer". Not a judge and often not even an attorney. They're usually very old and very miserable. So, everyone is found guilty, regardless of the evidence presented. After all, the standard of proof is only "preponderance of the evidence" and their rulings have a direct impact on their employer, the DMV. There is no plea bargaining. Your only choices are to plead guilty and bend over for fines and points or lose at trial and receive the very same points but higher fines. The only good thing about the TVA is that they're so busy that they will dismiss a ticket if the officer fails to appear twice.
...didn't mean to go on about that, but it is useful info.
Now, as far as your current ticket. 80/55 is 6 points on your license. Either 11 total pts or 3 speeding violations of any sort in 18 months gets you a suspension. And, yes, you have to pay the DMV a substatial "civil penalty" to get your license back. To make matters worse, insurance companies consider speeding tickets to be right up there with child molestation.
My advice? If you haven't already returned the ticket marked "not guilty" on the reverse and checked off the box requesting a Supporting Deposition (a sworn statement from the armed revenue collector, er...officer...more specifically setting forth the charges and what he observed). Oh, and you only had 48hrs to do so - it says so right on the ticket, but people seem to ignore it.
If not, then you should appear in person, plead not guilty, request a trial by jury and request a supporting deposition, on the record. If you do not see a court reporter or recording device then make the request in writing immediately after the arraignment. What's the big deal? The po-po must provide the supporting deposition with 30 days. If they fail to do so, you can make a motion to dismiss, but it must be done immediately upon the expiration of the 30 days.
You may find that the ADA or Prosecutor will offer you a reasonable reduction. Don't worry so much about the points - beg to pay a higher fine in exchange for a non-speed.
If it's not going your way, just ask for an adjournment to retain counsel and give me a call - I can refer you to someone in your area that specializes in this sort of stuff.
duh - 516-294-5614
Good luck!
...didn't mean to go on about that, but it is useful info.
Now, as far as your current ticket. 80/55 is 6 points on your license. Either 11 total pts or 3 speeding violations of any sort in 18 months gets you a suspension. And, yes, you have to pay the DMV a substatial "civil penalty" to get your license back. To make matters worse, insurance companies consider speeding tickets to be right up there with child molestation.
My advice? If you haven't already returned the ticket marked "not guilty" on the reverse and checked off the box requesting a Supporting Deposition (a sworn statement from the armed revenue collector, er...officer...more specifically setting forth the charges and what he observed). Oh, and you only had 48hrs to do so - it says so right on the ticket, but people seem to ignore it.
If not, then you should appear in person, plead not guilty, request a trial by jury and request a supporting deposition, on the record. If you do not see a court reporter or recording device then make the request in writing immediately after the arraignment. What's the big deal? The po-po must provide the supporting deposition with 30 days. If they fail to do so, you can make a motion to dismiss, but it must be done immediately upon the expiration of the 30 days.
You may find that the ADA or Prosecutor will offer you a reasonable reduction. Don't worry so much about the points - beg to pay a higher fine in exchange for a non-speed.
If it's not going your way, just ask for an adjournment to retain counsel and give me a call - I can refer you to someone in your area that specializes in this sort of stuff.
duh - 516-294-5614
Good luck!
09-21-2006, 12:04 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
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You need only to read Heeltoe's post to realize what I have come to know living in South and Central Florida and driving 911s for years. Never go to court for a traffic violation without a competent Attorney. The judge and the officer will walk all over you. I have even had the officer outright lie to the Judge in order to support his story.
09-21-2006, 12:56 AM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by ENTROPY
Get a lawyer. .... They handle these things everyday and are worth every penny of their fee. The rates here are fairly cheap (less than $100 even cheaper if you have friends!) Good luck!
Dan
Dan
Please send those $100 attorneys out here please!
Now that's what I call advice!
09-21-2006, 09:22 AM
#28
A few random thoughts by someone who's been there a couple of times. Best advise-There are lawyers who will take the case for what the cost of the fine is and then find a way to have the case tossed on a technicality or get defered adjudication and you won't even have to go to court. Never go in front of just a judge and cop- alway get a jury. As others have pointed out, you've sorta cooked your goose by admitting doing 65- oddly enough, the legal system is the only place I've found where honesty is NOT the best policy. (That was a hard lesson to learn. You'll just get thrown under the bus if you're honest.) You might as well fight dirty right from the start, because THEY are. (Another hard lesson.) Follow up with Marco.
Good Luck!
Jim
Good Luck!
Jim
09-21-2006, 09:43 AM
#29
Advanced
Consider the general physics which stands strong for you:
the trooper came from zero (or low speed) to catch you and pulled in behind you & the A8. Clearly he accelerated to catch up then slowed down with you. In that time how long did he have to clock you doing 80: the only "evidence" he has is if he was doing exactly 80pmh in his car to keep parallel for a while (since you say he had no radar)??
A possible "error" he made was: since he had to catch you he would have been doing 80pmh to catch your ** mph. Surely no case unless he had a time frame going exacty the same speed as you AND his speedo is calibrated, to justify reasoable evidence. After all, your speedo is made by Porsche.
the trooper came from zero (or low speed) to catch you and pulled in behind you & the A8. Clearly he accelerated to catch up then slowed down with you. In that time how long did he have to clock you doing 80: the only "evidence" he has is if he was doing exactly 80pmh in his car to keep parallel for a while (since you say he had no radar)??
A possible "error" he made was: since he had to catch you he would have been doing 80pmh to catch your ** mph. Surely no case unless he had a time frame going exacty the same speed as you AND his speedo is calibrated, to justify reasoable evidence. After all, your speedo is made by Porsche.
09-21-2006, 10:00 AM
#30
Racer
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Marco
What are the appeal rights in NY? In TX it's relatively simple to appeal to a higher court upon conviction.
What are the appeal rights in NY? In TX it's relatively simple to appeal to a higher court upon conviction.
Originally Posted by HeelToe
I'm a NY attorney and I do a fair amount of criminal work, including traffic violations. The range of possible dispositions depends mostly upon where the ticket is returnable, and the range is tremendous. Be especially careful around where you live because most Queens County tickets go to the NYS DMV's "Traffic and Parking Violations Agency" which is just a branch of the DMV. The "hearings" are held before a "Judicial Hearing Officer". Not a judge and often not even an attorney. They're usually very old and very miserable. So, everyone is found guilty, regardless of the evidence presented. After all, the standard of proof is only "preponderance of the evidence" and their rulings have a direct impact on their employer, the DMV. There is no plea bargaining. Your only choices are to plead guilty and bend over for fines and points or lose at trial and receive the very same points but higher fines. The only good thing about the TVA is that they're so busy that they will dismiss a ticket if the officer fails to appear twice.
...didn't mean to go on about that, but it is useful info.
Now, as far as your current ticket. 80/55 is 6 points on your license. Either 11 total pts or 3 speeding violations of any sort in 18 months gets you a suspension. And, yes, you have to pay the DMV a substatial "civil penalty" to get your license back. To make matters worse, insurance companies consider speeding tickets to be right up there with child molestation.
My advice? If you haven't already returned the ticket marked "not guilty" on the reverse and checked off the box requesting a Supporting Deposition (a sworn statement from the armed revenue collector, er...officer...more specifically setting forth the charges and what he observed). Oh, and you only had 48hrs to do so - it says so right on the ticket, but people seem to ignore it.
If not, then you should appear in person, plead not guilty, request a trial by jury and request a supporting deposition, on the record. If you do not see a court reporter or recording device then make the request in writing immediately after the arraignment. What's the big deal? The po-po must provide the supporting deposition with 30 days. If they fail to do so, you can make a motion to dismiss, but it must be done immediately upon the expiration of the 30 days.
You may find that the ADA or Prosecutor will offer you a reasonable reduction. Don't worry so much about the points - beg to pay a higher fine in exchange for a non-speed.
If it's not going your way, just ask for an adjournment to retain counsel and give me a call - I can refer you to someone in your area that specializes in this sort of stuff.
duh - 516-294-5614
Good luck!
...didn't mean to go on about that, but it is useful info.
Now, as far as your current ticket. 80/55 is 6 points on your license. Either 11 total pts or 3 speeding violations of any sort in 18 months gets you a suspension. And, yes, you have to pay the DMV a substatial "civil penalty" to get your license back. To make matters worse, insurance companies consider speeding tickets to be right up there with child molestation.
My advice? If you haven't already returned the ticket marked "not guilty" on the reverse and checked off the box requesting a Supporting Deposition (a sworn statement from the armed revenue collector, er...officer...more specifically setting forth the charges and what he observed). Oh, and you only had 48hrs to do so - it says so right on the ticket, but people seem to ignore it.
If not, then you should appear in person, plead not guilty, request a trial by jury and request a supporting deposition, on the record. If you do not see a court reporter or recording device then make the request in writing immediately after the arraignment. What's the big deal? The po-po must provide the supporting deposition with 30 days. If they fail to do so, you can make a motion to dismiss, but it must be done immediately upon the expiration of the 30 days.
You may find that the ADA or Prosecutor will offer you a reasonable reduction. Don't worry so much about the points - beg to pay a higher fine in exchange for a non-speed.
If it's not going your way, just ask for an adjournment to retain counsel and give me a call - I can refer you to someone in your area that specializes in this sort of stuff.
duh - 516-294-5614
Good luck!