The need for 300bhp...
09-13-2006, 06:29 PM
#31
Drifting
This is the only real way to get the HP you want. Been there, done that.
Yes I miss it, but the 993 is a totally different, and more enjoyable experience.
Turbos require huge deep pockets no matter what anyone says.
Who really needs another 15HP?
Want it, buy a Turbo. Done.
Yes I miss it, but the 993 is a totally different, and more enjoyable experience.
Turbos require huge deep pockets no matter what anyone says.
Who really needs another 15HP?
Want it, buy a Turbo. Done.
09-13-2006, 08:42 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 945
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I got lucky and purchased a car that got to ~ 325hp w/ a 3.8 rebuild. Would I have done it myself for 50hp, and spend that kind of coin, doubt it.
Not many mods left to do on this beast, but I have found a few.
My recent additions are the RS Shift Kit (rod/fork & lever), hopefully to be put in by next weekend... and.... a RennSport Systems chip by Steve W. which I put in last night. I did notice an improvement w/ the chip, but because of a change that was done when the 3.8 was done I am getting some pinging. I am bringing it in Monday to have it looked at. I spoke w/ Andial & Steve and it may be that the crank position/reference sensors were moved. It needs to be put back to stock.
Once this is done.. I'll post some feed back.
Not many mods left to do on this beast, but I have found a few.
My recent additions are the RS Shift Kit (rod/fork & lever), hopefully to be put in by next weekend... and.... a RennSport Systems chip by Steve W. which I put in last night. I did notice an improvement w/ the chip, but because of a change that was done when the 3.8 was done I am getting some pinging. I am bringing it in Monday to have it looked at. I spoke w/ Andial & Steve and it may be that the crank position/reference sensors were moved. It needs to be put back to stock.
Once this is done.. I'll post some feed back.
09-13-2006, 09:28 PM
#33
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Bull
I put on an open airbox and Fabspeed Cup exhaust and immediately felt the car go from 282hp to 283hp. I'm waiting until I adjust to that increase before any chip goes in!
09-13-2006, 10:21 PM
#34
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by TomF
Whew, what does one do with all that extra horse(singular) power?! LOL
09-13-2006, 10:43 PM
#35
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by last toy
Finn, I agree, but I can get a dyno run on my engne for about $80 thru a local club. I'm more interested to know what the bhp output is for my engine with 60 k miles. I'd be happy to know it is still at spec. Before I spend lots of money to get more significant power on my NA 964, I would opt for a 964 turbo.
Now you make more sense!
I agree re: 964 turbo, guy I know here has 964 3.6 Turbo, god damn hat thing is sweet!
09-13-2006, 11:16 PM
#36
Pro
i had my 1993 rs america 3.6 motor built to 3.8 by rothsport.
they are without a doubt one of the most competent and knowlegable porsche tuners in the country.
to get 315 horsepower it took porting the heads, rsr spec valves, rs cams, varioram intake, headers, ss mufflers and a motec engine management system. also had to run at least 95 octane fuel or it pinged.
they built the motor on the engine dyno and even ran it through a break in period on the engine dyno.
first they used super sport cams and got 320 hp but the motor would not idle at a low enough rpm to get it through oregon smog test so they had to go to euro rs cams and it barely passed smog. $30,000 and 5 months later we had 315 hp.
these guys are the no bull, real deal when it comes to horsepower.
when i see claims of 300 hp plus, i remember what it took to get there and i highly doubt the claims of many tuners. recently we have seen some big claims from 9M. could these heads and cams really rocket past recent technology? does 9m build these motors on an engine dyno? remember, big horsepower is only good if the car is reliable and drivable.
who wants to buy 104 octane race gas to drive on the street? even then, 325 to 350 hp? maybe but doubtful.
a factory, full race 993 3.8 rsr porsche race motor has 380 hp, you can't drive it on the street.
way too radical and needs frequent rebuilding.
i am no expert but i sure learned a lot about the reality of hp by going though this very expensive engine build.
just sharing my experience!
by the way, now i drive a stock 1995 c4 and it has plenty of power for me!
couldn't even come close to being able to use the 3.8 like it was meant to be used.
sometimes the fantasy of horsepower takes over and down the slippery slope we go, along with our ego's and our bank accounts!
jeff
they are without a doubt one of the most competent and knowlegable porsche tuners in the country.
to get 315 horsepower it took porting the heads, rsr spec valves, rs cams, varioram intake, headers, ss mufflers and a motec engine management system. also had to run at least 95 octane fuel or it pinged.
they built the motor on the engine dyno and even ran it through a break in period on the engine dyno.
first they used super sport cams and got 320 hp but the motor would not idle at a low enough rpm to get it through oregon smog test so they had to go to euro rs cams and it barely passed smog. $30,000 and 5 months later we had 315 hp.
these guys are the no bull, real deal when it comes to horsepower.
when i see claims of 300 hp plus, i remember what it took to get there and i highly doubt the claims of many tuners. recently we have seen some big claims from 9M. could these heads and cams really rocket past recent technology? does 9m build these motors on an engine dyno? remember, big horsepower is only good if the car is reliable and drivable.
who wants to buy 104 octane race gas to drive on the street? even then, 325 to 350 hp? maybe but doubtful.
a factory, full race 993 3.8 rsr porsche race motor has 380 hp, you can't drive it on the street.
way too radical and needs frequent rebuilding.
i am no expert but i sure learned a lot about the reality of hp by going though this very expensive engine build.
just sharing my experience!
by the way, now i drive a stock 1995 c4 and it has plenty of power for me!
couldn't even come close to being able to use the 3.8 like it was meant to be used.
sometimes the fantasy of horsepower takes over and down the slippery slope we go, along with our ego's and our bank accounts!
jeff
Last edited by simpateko; 09-14-2006 at 01:47 PM.
09-14-2006, 03:13 AM
#39
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I heard RUF does a small kit for +50 bhp which is about 8000 euros which is decent VFM. Question is would it affect the long term life of the engine? I want this car to last forever - until we have oil left in the world
09-14-2006, 04:19 AM
#40
Drifting
Originally Posted by indian porker
I heard RUF does a small kit for +50 bhp which is about 8000 euros which is decent VFM. Question is would it affect the long term life of the engine? I want this car to last forever - until we have oil left in the world
I reckon these cars should be left pretty well as they are. I love my car as it is.
Yes I miss that rush of blood to the head the 3.6T gave me, but that's about the only good thing about those cars. Seriously, those here that have had a Turbo before will know what I mean.
Been there, done that twice and got the T shirt and huge bill folder to prove it
Still miss it though
09-14-2006, 06:08 AM
#41
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Flying Finn
No way, no how any chip will make 50 hp on a n/a 993. 10-15 ok but that's about it.
IMO??? Talk to Colin at 9M. His heads will do the trick even in street tune.
09-14-2006, 06:37 AM
#42
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by simpateko
..........to get 315 horsepower it took porting the heads, rsr spec valves, rs cams, varioram intake, headers, ss mufflers and a motec engine management system. also had to run at least 95 octane fuel or it pinged.............they built the motor on the engine dyno and even ran it through a break in period on the engine dyno.
first they used super sport cams and got 320 hp but the motor would not idle at a low enough rpm to get it through oregon smog test so they had to go to euro rs cams and it barely passed smog. $30,000 and 5 months later we had 315 hp.
these guys are the no bull, real deal when it comes to horsepower.
when i see claims of 300 hp plus, i remember what it took to get there and i highly doubt the claims of many tuners...............
a factory, full race 993 3.8 rsr porsche race motor has 380 hp, you can't drive it on the street............way too radical and needs frequent rebuilding.
i am no expert but i sure learned a lot about the reality of hp by going though this very expensive engine build.
just sharing my experience!
first they used super sport cams and got 320 hp but the motor would not idle at a low enough rpm to get it through oregon smog test so they had to go to euro rs cams and it barely passed smog. $30,000 and 5 months later we had 315 hp.
these guys are the no bull, real deal when it comes to horsepower.
when i see claims of 300 hp plus, i remember what it took to get there and i highly doubt the claims of many tuners...............
a factory, full race 993 3.8 rsr porsche race motor has 380 hp, you can't drive it on the street............way too radical and needs frequent rebuilding.
i am no expert but i sure learned a lot about the reality of hp by going though this very expensive engine build.
just sharing my experience!
09-14-2006, 06:46 AM
#43
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
simpateko
I am slightly confused. You are saying you only managed to get 15 bhp more than standard with all those mods. There is something wrong there. You really paid $30,000 for such a small gain? Or am I misunderstanding. Standard power for a 3.8 is, unless I am mistaken, 300bhp, or at least it is in Europe. You say your car is producing 315bhp. Now, I have to admit that i do not know what the differences are between a US car and ROW, but either you have spent a lot of money for no reason or, what I expect is happening is, you are not comparing like with like. Either way, I think your comments on other people's claims must be considered pretty dubious, unless there is something I am missing.
To some extent, quoting power figures is meaningless unless you have a base figure to work from. What we should all be interested in is a comparetive gain. I don't care if a tuner claims 500bhp from just a filter, chip and rear box, so long as that tuner quantifies it by saying it is 15bhp more than standard! OK, that is a bit of an exageration, but it is meant to illustrate a point.
Comparetive absolute gains are all that really matter and the headline figure is all about bragging rights. Currently, there are only 2 ways of comparing the power of 2 cars and that is by either taking the engines out and using a proven engine dyno which is calibrated to some international standard or to put them both on the same rolling road under the same conditions. This probably explains some fo the confusion over power claims, the fact that the headline figures are gained using different equipment being operated by different people in different conditions.
I am slightly confused. You are saying you only managed to get 15 bhp more than standard with all those mods. There is something wrong there. You really paid $30,000 for such a small gain? Or am I misunderstanding. Standard power for a 3.8 is, unless I am mistaken, 300bhp, or at least it is in Europe. You say your car is producing 315bhp. Now, I have to admit that i do not know what the differences are between a US car and ROW, but either you have spent a lot of money for no reason or, what I expect is happening is, you are not comparing like with like. Either way, I think your comments on other people's claims must be considered pretty dubious, unless there is something I am missing.
To some extent, quoting power figures is meaningless unless you have a base figure to work from. What we should all be interested in is a comparetive gain. I don't care if a tuner claims 500bhp from just a filter, chip and rear box, so long as that tuner quantifies it by saying it is 15bhp more than standard! OK, that is a bit of an exageration, but it is meant to illustrate a point.
Comparetive absolute gains are all that really matter and the headline figure is all about bragging rights. Currently, there are only 2 ways of comparing the power of 2 cars and that is by either taking the engines out and using a proven engine dyno which is calibrated to some international standard or to put them both on the same rolling road under the same conditions. This probably explains some fo the confusion over power claims, the fact that the headline figures are gained using different equipment being operated by different people in different conditions.
09-14-2006, 11:39 AM
#44
Addicted Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
50 more ponies would be great ...for about a week and a half. Once you're used to it, you don't get the same rush. Lightening the car is a great solution as it improves ALL handling dynamics (I love my light SC). And for that matter, a tighter suspension gives the car a more lively, agile feel which can make you both faster as well as "feel" faster.
If you want a quicker 993, you must pour serious $$ into real changes (turbo, s/c, or the 9M treatment), or of course, buy a TT. Then there's the cheaper route: drive a car with less HP every couple of days and you will gain a new appreciation for your 993.
Edward
If you want a quicker 993, you must pour serious $$ into real changes (turbo, s/c, or the 9M treatment), or of course, buy a TT. Then there's the cheaper route: drive a car with less HP every couple of days and you will gain a new appreciation for your 993.
Edward
09-14-2006, 12:21 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: behind the Corn Curtain
Posts: 2,314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It all comes down to "balance". We want it in our governments, we enjoy it in our cars. Changing only one aspect of the performance equation will likely manifest another weak link. Disappointment is the end result. The thought process, before hand, must be thorough. Jean probably knows this better than most. And, yes, I believe simpateko's experience is valid and should be a "stickie" atop every forum.
Noah
Noah