Death of Porsche: 993 Sandwich (need comparables)
07-11-2006, 04:57 PM
#31
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I made a claim with the at fault party and went round and round with them to the point I filed suit. In the meantime, I made a claim through my carrier and they paid up after I did the comp work others have suggested. The guy at the company said he'd never received such a nice demand package for property damage. It made his job easy in justifying paying what my car was worth. I dismissed the lawsuit after I settled my "personal injury" claim.
You have a bonehead for an adjuster. The car purchase was a month old. That should be enough.
You have a bonehead for an adjuster. The car purchase was a month old. That should be enough.
07-11-2006, 06:01 PM
#32
Poseur
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The whole reason you have an insurance is to subrugate on your behalf. Let THEM take on the other guy. The best evidence of value is your 1 week old sales slip.
07-12-2006, 01:05 PM
#33
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Update
Wow. Thanks for all of the replies, including the heated discourse on the value of playing hardball.
My plan on dealing with the insurance company is as follows:
1- Engage the adjuster and see how far logic gets me
2- If I get stuck there, try to involve my agent to see if she can help move the adjuster
3- If I'm still stuck, consider other options, like going to the Taurus's insurance company and/or involving a lawyer. Using a lawyer is a cost-benefit analysis, in my opinion. If I end up $2k short on valuation, do I expect a lawyer will get that $2k back without incurring more than $2k in fees?
Here are some pictures of the carnage for your amusement.
Here's where I stand right now on compiling comparables
- I dealt with Holt prior to buying this car (not from him) and he has been very helpful. He has given me a list of 6 '95-'96 sales he has done this year, with purschase prices, and offered to speak with the adjuster about market value.
- I have requested some of you to share your bill of sale with me. Thank you for your generosity.
- I have found one closed eBay auction that actually resulted in a purchase($39,900)
- Have a pile of listings from eBay, Autotrader, and Cars.com -- but State Farm has already said they want only completed sales. Can't hurt to send them an inventory anyway I figure.
Also, AnotherRed993 suggested a Cab would not be a comparable for a Coupe. While I understand the reasoning there, from what I see the two configurations sell for more or less the same right now. Since the market for 993s is not that liquid, I've decided to include Cabs as comps too.
I'll let you know how it develops.
My plan on dealing with the insurance company is as follows:
1- Engage the adjuster and see how far logic gets me
2- If I get stuck there, try to involve my agent to see if she can help move the adjuster
3- If I'm still stuck, consider other options, like going to the Taurus's insurance company and/or involving a lawyer. Using a lawyer is a cost-benefit analysis, in my opinion. If I end up $2k short on valuation, do I expect a lawyer will get that $2k back without incurring more than $2k in fees?
Here are some pictures of the carnage for your amusement.
Here's where I stand right now on compiling comparables
- I dealt with Holt prior to buying this car (not from him) and he has been very helpful. He has given me a list of 6 '95-'96 sales he has done this year, with purschase prices, and offered to speak with the adjuster about market value.
- I have requested some of you to share your bill of sale with me. Thank you for your generosity.
- I have found one closed eBay auction that actually resulted in a purchase($39,900)
- Have a pile of listings from eBay, Autotrader, and Cars.com -- but State Farm has already said they want only completed sales. Can't hurt to send them an inventory anyway I figure.
Also, AnotherRed993 suggested a Cab would not be a comparable for a Coupe. While I understand the reasoning there, from what I see the two configurations sell for more or less the same right now. Since the market for 993s is not that liquid, I've decided to include Cabs as comps too.
I'll let you know how it develops.
07-12-2006, 01:58 PM
#34
Pro
OUCH!!!
I think using cabs as a comparison (as long as to your advantage
) makes sense, due to the small amount of velocity.
Just curious- IF you could assume no frame damage, would that clip be replaceable, under normal circumstances (i.e., if you could actually get parts). Without hijacking the thread, I'm trying to just understand the rationale on totaling the car vs. the insurance company sticking you with a Frankenstein car.
thanks!
I think using cabs as a comparison (as long as to your advantage
) makes sense, due to the small amount of velocity.Just curious- IF you could assume no frame damage, would that clip be replaceable, under normal circumstances (i.e., if you could actually get parts). Without hijacking the thread, I'm trying to just understand the rationale on totaling the car vs. the insurance company sticking you with a Frankenstein car.
thanks!
07-12-2006, 02:38 PM
#35
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Just two years ago I know a guy that had his 911 totaled and after the settlement he bought the car from the insurance company. He had it fixed at only a fraction of the quote. He ended up with a nice 911 for practlcally nothing.
07-12-2006, 03:06 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by pchak
Just curious- IF you could assume no frame damage, would that clip be replaceable, under normal circumstances (i.e., if you could actually get parts).
I think the shock tower on the drivers' side is probably toast. I might make a track car candidate of the price was extremely right.
07-12-2006, 03:10 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by ReidHJ
Wow. Thanks for all of the replies, including the heated discourse on the value of playing hardball.
My plan on dealing with the insurance company is as follows:
1- Engage the adjuster and see how far logic gets me
2- If I get stuck there, try to involve my agent to see if she can help move the adjuster
3- If I'm still stuck, consider other options, like going to the Taurus's insurance company and/or involving a lawyer. Using a lawyer is a cost-benefit analysis, in my opinion. If I end up $2k short on valuation, do I expect a lawyer will get that $2k back without incurring more than $2k in fees?
Here are some pictures of the carnage for your amusement.
Here's where I stand right now on compiling comparables
- I dealt with Holt prior to buying this car (not from him) and he has been very helpful. He has given me a list of 6 '95-'96 sales he has done this year, with purschase prices, and offered to speak with the adjuster about market value.
- I have requested some of you to share your bill of sale with me. Thank you for your generosity.
- I have found one closed eBay auction that actually resulted in a purchase($39,900)
- Have a pile of listings from eBay, Autotrader, and Cars.com -- but State Farm has already said they want only completed sales. Can't hurt to send them an inventory anyway I figure.
Also, AnotherRed993 suggested a Cab would not be a comparable for a Coupe. While I understand the reasoning there, from what I see the two configurations sell for more or less the same right now. Since the market for 993s is not that liquid, I've decided to include Cabs as comps too.
I'll let you know how it develops.
My plan on dealing with the insurance company is as follows:
1- Engage the adjuster and see how far logic gets me
2- If I get stuck there, try to involve my agent to see if she can help move the adjuster
3- If I'm still stuck, consider other options, like going to the Taurus's insurance company and/or involving a lawyer. Using a lawyer is a cost-benefit analysis, in my opinion. If I end up $2k short on valuation, do I expect a lawyer will get that $2k back without incurring more than $2k in fees?
Here are some pictures of the carnage for your amusement.
Here's where I stand right now on compiling comparables
- I dealt with Holt prior to buying this car (not from him) and he has been very helpful. He has given me a list of 6 '95-'96 sales he has done this year, with purschase prices, and offered to speak with the adjuster about market value.
- I have requested some of you to share your bill of sale with me. Thank you for your generosity.
- I have found one closed eBay auction that actually resulted in a purchase($39,900)
- Have a pile of listings from eBay, Autotrader, and Cars.com -- but State Farm has already said they want only completed sales. Can't hurt to send them an inventory anyway I figure.
Also, AnotherRed993 suggested a Cab would not be a comparable for a Coupe. While I understand the reasoning there, from what I see the two configurations sell for more or less the same right now. Since the market for 993s is not that liquid, I've decided to include Cabs as comps too.
I'll let you know how it develops.
07-12-2006, 03:16 PM
#39
Speaking civilly and in good faith with your state's Insurance Commissioner may very well free up a log jam. If you're on good terms with your adjuster, advise him ahead of time that you are considering contacting the IC. Use as a last ditch effort to resolve diplomatically, though, as GOOD insurance companies don't really care to have the IC scutinize their work. (A real PITA for the company, too- tons of paperwork justifying their actions. They hate it and they might hate you as a result.)
I contacted the IC when the 'at fault' driver's insurance company tried some last-minute stonewalling. A check for the full amount was in my hands in about 20 minutes.
Good Luck-
Jim
I contacted the IC when the 'at fault' driver's insurance company tried some last-minute stonewalling. A check for the full amount was in my hands in about 20 minutes.
Good Luck-
Jim
07-12-2006, 03:41 PM
#40
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JAR993 -- I get that the Coupe and Cab are not comparables. I'll take your advice and not include it in round 1.
As far as asking for their "comps" the adjuster said to me they are using comps, they're just taking it from the NADA book value. I don't get the impression he has any intention of finding real comps.
Brian Buxton sent me a wonderful report from the Manheim auction activity for '96 C2 Coupes. These wholesale values show the following:
- 19k miles, $40,000
- 48k miles, $44,000
- 60k miles, $34,250
- 88k miles, $28,600
- 146k miles, $27,400
Figure 10% to 15% mark up over wholesale and I think the case is pretty compelling. These are actual wholesale sales across the country of this exact car +/- the mileage difference. Retail by definition must be higher.
Just for fun, I am asking WagonWorks in Arlington, VA to tell me what they think about repairing it. Could it be done? Would it be wise? What might it cost? I'm disinclined to go down this route, unless they have something really compelling to say. I don't think they would agree to do the work if they were not confident they could do the work well.
As far as asking for their "comps" the adjuster said to me they are using comps, they're just taking it from the NADA book value. I don't get the impression he has any intention of finding real comps.
Brian Buxton sent me a wonderful report from the Manheim auction activity for '96 C2 Coupes. These wholesale values show the following:
- 19k miles, $40,000
- 48k miles, $44,000
- 60k miles, $34,250
- 88k miles, $28,600
- 146k miles, $27,400
Figure 10% to 15% mark up over wholesale and I think the case is pretty compelling. These are actual wholesale sales across the country of this exact car +/- the mileage difference. Retail by definition must be higher.
Just for fun, I am asking WagonWorks in Arlington, VA to tell me what they think about repairing it. Could it be done? Would it be wise? What might it cost? I'm disinclined to go down this route, unless they have something really compelling to say. I don't think they would agree to do the work if they were not confident they could do the work well.
07-12-2006, 04:37 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ReidHJ
Here is the brief, violent history of my 993 and a request for help, so I can "get back on the horse"
How to kill a 993 in four short weeks:
Week 0 -- Purschased '96 911 C2 Coupe. Black on Gray. 41k miles. 18" twists. Basically mint. Drove wonderfully. $38,500.
Week 1 -- Rock to the windshield. Pay the $250 deductible and replace the windshield.
Week 2 -- Radio antena doesn't work after windshield replacement, re-replace the windshield (no charge).
Week 3 -- Backed into a car in my parking lot, dinging the rear bumper (crushing the Hyundai). Insurance notified, premium raised.
Week 4 -- On the Dulles Toll Road in VA, I was rear-ended by a rental Taurus and driven under the 2006 F-150 in front of me, causing a "993 Sandwich". I knew there was a reason I didn't like Fords.
(I don't appear to be able to upload photos, as I am not a paying member, or I would.)
As you may know, the bumpers on a F-150 and a 993 don't line up. The result was a brutal, crushing all of the driver's side sheetmetal up to the windshield and the shearing off of the driver's front wheel. The driver's rear quarterpanel held up like a champ to the offending rental Taurus, but still deformed several inches.
The F-150 suffered terrible scratches to it's trailer hitch.
I heard today that my 993 is a total loss. So it goes...
Here's why I need some comparables.
My insurance company is offering me $32,400 for my mint '96 993 with 40k miles. I need to show them, with actual purchase histories, that these cars typically go in the high 30s/low 40s when they have low mileage and are in great condition. I have found a couple of closed auctions on eBay that supprot this position.
Does anyone have any recent purchases that can share with me that support high 30s for such a car?
If I take a $6k loss on a car I've owned exactly 30 days, there's little chance of convincing my wife to get another one. If I can recover close to what I paid for the car, I will be back in the market.
Thank you for your help.
How to kill a 993 in four short weeks:
Week 0 -- Purschased '96 911 C2 Coupe. Black on Gray. 41k miles. 18" twists. Basically mint. Drove wonderfully. $38,500.
Week 1 -- Rock to the windshield. Pay the $250 deductible and replace the windshield.
Week 2 -- Radio antena doesn't work after windshield replacement, re-replace the windshield (no charge).
Week 3 -- Backed into a car in my parking lot, dinging the rear bumper (crushing the Hyundai). Insurance notified, premium raised.
Week 4 -- On the Dulles Toll Road in VA, I was rear-ended by a rental Taurus and driven under the 2006 F-150 in front of me, causing a "993 Sandwich". I knew there was a reason I didn't like Fords.
(I don't appear to be able to upload photos, as I am not a paying member, or I would.)
As you may know, the bumpers on a F-150 and a 993 don't line up. The result was a brutal, crushing all of the driver's side sheetmetal up to the windshield and the shearing off of the driver's front wheel. The driver's rear quarterpanel held up like a champ to the offending rental Taurus, but still deformed several inches.
The F-150 suffered terrible scratches to it's trailer hitch.
I heard today that my 993 is a total loss. So it goes...
Here's why I need some comparables.
My insurance company is offering me $32,400 for my mint '96 993 with 40k miles. I need to show them, with actual purchase histories, that these cars typically go in the high 30s/low 40s when they have low mileage and are in great condition. I have found a couple of closed auctions on eBay that supprot this position.
Does anyone have any recent purchases that can share with me that support high 30s for such a car?
If I take a $6k loss on a car I've owned exactly 30 days, there's little chance of convincing my wife to get another one. If I can recover close to what I paid for the car, I will be back in the market.
Thank you for your help.
07-12-2006, 07:55 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Heh, heh! That looks about what my 1990 Carrera 4 looked like after I T-Boned a police van. It's a long story, but another time.
I got mine fixed. State Farm paid $22K in repairs to completely rebuild the car from the ground up. It came out a 9.95 out of 10, nearly concours, except for a tiny flaw in the paint. It was a blast watching the progress and when it was done it was an amazing transformation.
I don't recommend you do that unless you; 1) really want the project for fun and mod the car, 2) don't care taking a hit for value, 3) have an amazing shop with an amazing body man.
I got mine fixed. State Farm paid $22K in repairs to completely rebuild the car from the ground up. It came out a 9.95 out of 10, nearly concours, except for a tiny flaw in the paint. It was a blast watching the progress and when it was done it was an amazing transformation.
I don't recommend you do that unless you; 1) really want the project for fun and mod the car, 2) don't care taking a hit for value, 3) have an amazing shop with an amazing body man.
Originally Posted by ReidHJ
Wow. Thanks for all of the replies, including the heated discourse on the value of playing hardball.
My plan on dealing with the insurance company is as follows:
1- Engage the adjuster and see how far logic gets me
2- If I get stuck there, try to involve my agent to see if she can help move the adjuster
3- If I'm still stuck, consider other options, like going to the Taurus's insurance company and/or involving a lawyer. Using a lawyer is a cost-benefit analysis, in my opinion. If I end up $2k short on valuation, do I expect a lawyer will get that $2k back without incurring more than $2k in fees?
Here are some pictures of the carnage for your amusement.
Here's where I stand right now on compiling comparables
- I dealt with Holt prior to buying this car (not from him) and he has been very helpful. He has given me a list of 6 '95-'96 sales he has done this year, with purschase prices, and offered to speak with the adjuster about market value.
- I have requested some of you to share your bill of sale with me. Thank you for your generosity.
- I have found one closed eBay auction that actually resulted in a purchase($39,900)
- Have a pile of listings from eBay, Autotrader, and Cars.com -- but State Farm has already said they want only completed sales. Can't hurt to send them an inventory anyway I figure.
Also, AnotherRed993 suggested a Cab would not be a comparable for a Coupe. While I understand the reasoning there, from what I see the two configurations sell for more or less the same right now. Since the market for 993s is not that liquid, I've decided to include Cabs as comps too.
I'll let you know how it develops.
My plan on dealing with the insurance company is as follows:
1- Engage the adjuster and see how far logic gets me
2- If I get stuck there, try to involve my agent to see if she can help move the adjuster
3- If I'm still stuck, consider other options, like going to the Taurus's insurance company and/or involving a lawyer. Using a lawyer is a cost-benefit analysis, in my opinion. If I end up $2k short on valuation, do I expect a lawyer will get that $2k back without incurring more than $2k in fees?
Here are some pictures of the carnage for your amusement.
Here's where I stand right now on compiling comparables
- I dealt with Holt prior to buying this car (not from him) and he has been very helpful. He has given me a list of 6 '95-'96 sales he has done this year, with purschase prices, and offered to speak with the adjuster about market value.
- I have requested some of you to share your bill of sale with me. Thank you for your generosity.
- I have found one closed eBay auction that actually resulted in a purchase($39,900)
- Have a pile of listings from eBay, Autotrader, and Cars.com -- but State Farm has already said they want only completed sales. Can't hurt to send them an inventory anyway I figure.
Also, AnotherRed993 suggested a Cab would not be a comparable for a Coupe. While I understand the reasoning there, from what I see the two configurations sell for more or less the same right now. Since the market for 993s is not that liquid, I've decided to include Cabs as comps too.
I'll let you know how it develops.
07-12-2006, 09:38 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
State Farm has been excellent to me. After the horrible crash and rebuild of my 1990 C4 they did not increase my rates! The adjuster worked with me on several issues that were borderline and I think I got a fair deal.
I hope you get treated as well.
I hope you get treated as well.
07-13-2006, 01:45 AM
#45
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherRed993
I see you are still not a rennlist member.
