DC from Cape Cod

I guess the error rate is higher when you hand assemble v.s. robots.....

eloyex

[QUOTE=pcar964]If we bought our cars for crash worthiness, we'd all be driving Hummers

dont be so sure my friend ... !!
i have somplace a photo of a frontal crash of a H2 and a big pickup (GM i think) and let me tell you the H2 get vastly destroyed...
by far more than the GM ..

perhaps H1 are stiffer ...

pcar964

I guess that's an example of "don't believe everything you hear or read" They hired the japs to cut costs. And they did, A LOT.

pcar964

[QUOTE=eloyex]That's strange, isn't the H2 built on the Chevy Silverado (GM) platform? Anyway, my point was that Hummers are safer than a 993/996 in a crash. Of that I have little doubt.

Dan V

My guess is that all the German marques figured out they could sell more cars if there weren't a lot of reliable used cars around to compete against. It's simply more profitable to crank out disposable new cars that don't make sense (financially) to keep after the warranty is expired.

Adrienne

Dan - interesting you say that. I just spoke with a friend regarding his 996 and the recently replaced RMS. He enjoys the car, but admits that he has no intention of keeping it past the warranty because of concerns with build quality. He also had a 911 track car and would not consider selling it.

texas911

Don't cofuse reliable with old world craftsmanship.

ceboyd

I think, however, that when someone got a 'lemon' 993 (few and far between) they were very bad lemon's... I know of someone in Milwaukee who had a 98 993 -- beautiful loaded silver 993 he paid top dollar for.. and he had nothing but problems with it... don't remember the details but it had to do with more than just the engine. In the end, porsche ended up buying back the car and shipping it back to germany to analyze (not sure they bothered since it was a discontinued model) and they gave him a brand new 99 996 (he was less than thrilled to have a 996 but took it anyway since it was free)... Ironicly, he tracked the 996 and never had any issues with it.

now I've seen a 996 die at ever track event we've been to.. (that well known engine go boom issue).... and have YET to see a 993 go boom on the track ...the only time I've seen a 993 have problems at the track was this guy who had his built into a 3.8 (a beautiful red one) and it was obvious to me the people that did the 3.8 upgrade did something horribly wrong for it to go boom after just 2 laps (warm up laps mind you) at gingerman.

mborkow

although the 993 was not designed with the help of the japanese firm that porsche brought in to aid them, it was produced using some of their techniques. if you want to read more about it:
http://borkow.net/porsche_recovery.pdf

ceboyd

nice.. thanks for the link!

mborkow

no problem...the article was sent to me by a fellow RLister, and i thought it was really interesting (both from a porsche perspective and an engineering perspective; i work in engineering).

tobyport

More from the article...."But it's not just the standard of bodywork that's gone downhill, according to the Van Zweedens. 'I just sold three 996 engines in one week,' said Rob, 'sourced from wrecked cars. What does that tell you about the quality? I can show you engines that have done 5000km and gone wrong. The quality started to go away in '96 when the Boxster came in. I've seen 996 Turbos that have covered only 5000 to 10,000km, and they are in trouble already. Likewise, the 3.6 engine from the 996 also has problems under 10,000km.' Tonny confirmed the fraternal line: 'They go maybe 10,000km and the engines are exploding and the bearings go. People are calling every day for 996 and Boxster engines, especially the 2.5 ones. Most of the time people drive too fast, and don't check the oil or the coolant.' Can you guys believe this?! I hope the 997's are an improvement...

Paulsha911

Is it possible to get a scan of the article?

Speedraser

PCar
It depends on the type of crash. A Hummer would surely be better than a 993 if you ran them head-on into each other, but not necessarily if you ran each into a wall, or rolled them, or ...

The 993 (and 996, 986) all have superb crash records (for frequency of injury) -- better, according to the Highway Loss Data Institute, than the Hummer H2.

Before anyone yells at me, I'm not saying I'd rather crash in a 993 than an H2, but it does depend on the type of crash. Has anyone else seen the 40 mph offset crash test pictures of the (new) Mini and the last-generation F150? Not what one would expect...

mborkow

my new favorite site: http://www.fuh2.com/
i'd rather be dead in my 993 that driving an h2