First Cayman on the street...
01-22-2006, 01:32 PM
#46
Race Car
Originally Posted by RobertG
being a 69 911 S owner.....I always thought the 993 was just another new SOULESS porsche
...bada Bing.................stirring the pot
...bada Bing.................stirring the pot
01-22-2006, 01:54 PM
#47
Originally Posted by RobertG
being a 69 911 S owner.....I always thought the 993 was just another new SOULESS porsche
...bada Bing.................stirring the pot
...bada Bing.................stirring the pot
01-22-2006, 02:03 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by KBS911
Why didn't all of you whining 993 owners stick with the earlier model "real" 911s, warts and all. Obviously you are not true purists, if you were you'd still be hanging on to a 356. The Cayman outperforms the 993 in every aspect of objective performance. Don't be so locked in the past. Guess all of the 996 and 997 owners are missing it too.
01-22-2006, 02:11 PM
#49
Originally Posted by GrantG
Actually, the Cayman S and the 993 have almost identical objective performance - almost to an eery degree. Even top speed is identical (171mph). Oh, and I did stay with an early car (to go with the 993)
01-22-2006, 02:39 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by pcar964
I thought the top speed (factory claim) for the 993 was 168mph? I've been an indicated 170, but figure the speedo is a little optomisitc. I'm guessing the factory is less conservative with their claims these days, but that's just an assumption
01-22-2006, 02:42 PM
#51
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I think the 1995 (pre-varioram) model was slightly slower than 96+
01-22-2006, 03:19 PM
#52
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by KBS911
Why didn't all of you whining 993 owners stick with the earlier model "real" 911s, warts and all. Obviously you are not true purists, if you were you'd still be hanging on to a 356. The Cayman outperforms the 993 in every aspect of objective performance. Don't be so locked in the past. Guess all of the 996 and 997 owners are missing it too.
I'd trade my 993 anytime for a 356C Cabriolet in very good condition...does it make me a purist? I'd be tempted by a pristine 1970/71 911S as well...same as Steve McQueen drove in the "Le Mans" first scenes...I believe the 993 is the last one with the Porsche family's fingerprints and charisma...I'm a Porsche enthusiast from 1950 (not counting the Gmund cars) to 1998...please don't get upset...it's just some crazy guy's humble opinion...
you sounded angry on your post! 
01-22-2006, 03:49 PM
#53
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Well this thread is certainly going down hill ... so let me help push it along
Except for the GT3, I have never warmed up to the 996, and am glad it is gone (nothing personal to those who love them, now). I truly DO like the Cayman and the 997, however. But any criticism I may have for any of these models is limited to the cars themselves, and NOT levied as a comparison to the "inherent superiority" of 993s or previous 911 models.
I love and prefer the air-cooled cars for a myriad of reasons, but am not so blind as to think they are the be-all-and-end-all of Porsche-land. Talk to a few SC or Carrera guys, and they'll tell you they've got the "pure" car and we 993 owners are the woosies (and many outright poo poo the much-maligned 964). Talk to some devoted long-hood owners and they'll insist that they have the religion. And the 356 guys? ; well you know where I'm going with this.
But this is all in fun, after all. And "criticism" ought to be healthy, if not a bit heated, so long as we can all part as friends, albeit with differing opinions. And for us "purists" to lament the direction of Porsche-AG is fair game, so long as we also understand that we now represent only a sliver minority of their clientelle, and that none of us here would prefer Porsche remaining "pure," and then getting bought off by Fiat, VW, or some other multinational because they couldn't stay solvent. So there's my two cents, of which I may even get some change back. Have funn all! And let the criticism, continue!
Edward
Except for the GT3, I have never warmed up to the 996, and am glad it is gone (nothing personal to those who love them, now). I truly DO like the Cayman and the 997, however. But any criticism I may have for any of these models is limited to the cars themselves, and NOT levied as a comparison to the "inherent superiority" of 993s or previous 911 models.
I love and prefer the air-cooled cars for a myriad of reasons, but am not so blind as to think they are the be-all-and-end-all of Porsche-land. Talk to a few SC or Carrera guys, and they'll tell you they've got the "pure" car and we 993 owners are the woosies (and many outright poo poo the much-maligned 964). Talk to some devoted long-hood owners and they'll insist that they have the religion. And the 356 guys? ; well you know where I'm going with this.
But this is all in fun, after all. And "criticism" ought to be healthy, if not a bit heated, so long as we can all part as friends, albeit with differing opinions. And for us "purists" to lament the direction of Porsche-AG is fair game, so long as we also understand that we now represent only a sliver minority of their clientelle, and that none of us here would prefer Porsche remaining "pure," and then getting bought off by Fiat, VW, or some other multinational because they couldn't stay solvent. So there's my two cents, of which I may even get some change back. Have funn all! And let the criticism, continue!
Edward
01-22-2006, 04:29 PM
#54
Originally Posted by Edward
Well this thread is certainly going down hill ... so let me help push it along
Except for the GT3, I have never warmed up to the 996, and am glad it is gone (nothing personal to those who love them, now). I truly DO like the Cayman and the 997, however. But any criticism I may have for any of these models is limited to the cars themselves, and NOT levied as a comparison to the "inherent superiority" of 993s or previous 911 models.
I love and prefer the air-cooled cars for a myriad of reasons, but am not so blind as to think they are the be-all-and-end-all of Porsche-land. Talk to a few SC or Carrera guys, and they'll tell you they've got the "pure" car and we 993 owners are the woosies (and many outright poo poo the much-maligned 964). Talk to some devoted long-hood owners and they'll insist that they have the religion. And the 356 guys? ; well you know where I'm going with this.
But this is all in fun, after all. And "criticism" ought to be healthy, if not a bit heated, so long as we can all part as friends, albeit with differing opinions. And for us "purists" to lament the direction of Porsche-AG is fair game, so long as we also understand that we now represent only a sliver minority of their clientelle, and that none of us here would prefer Porsche remaining "pure," and then getting bought off by Fiat, VW, or some other multinational because they couldn't stay solvent. So there's my two cents, of which I may even get some change back. Have funn all! And let the criticism, continue!
Edward
Except for the GT3, I have never warmed up to the 996, and am glad it is gone (nothing personal to those who love them, now). I truly DO like the Cayman and the 997, however. But any criticism I may have for any of these models is limited to the cars themselves, and NOT levied as a comparison to the "inherent superiority" of 993s or previous 911 models.
I love and prefer the air-cooled cars for a myriad of reasons, but am not so blind as to think they are the be-all-and-end-all of Porsche-land. Talk to a few SC or Carrera guys, and they'll tell you they've got the "pure" car and we 993 owners are the woosies (and many outright poo poo the much-maligned 964). Talk to some devoted long-hood owners and they'll insist that they have the religion. And the 356 guys? ; well you know where I'm going with this.
But this is all in fun, after all. And "criticism" ought to be healthy, if not a bit heated, so long as we can all part as friends, albeit with differing opinions. And for us "purists" to lament the direction of Porsche-AG is fair game, so long as we also understand that we now represent only a sliver minority of their clientelle, and that none of us here would prefer Porsche remaining "pure," and then getting bought off by Fiat, VW, or some other multinational because they couldn't stay solvent. So there's my two cents, of which I may even get some change back. Have funn all! And let the criticism, continue!
Edward
Agreed on most points Edward - except that I would have preferred if Porsche had been bought by VW -- look at Ferrari, since they have the financial backing of Fiat, there's no pressure to expand their production volume and compromise their product to appeal to a wider audience. That's what would have been best for the Porsche marque. Obviously, it's better for PAG stakeholders that they stayed independant and watered down their line. But since we're all Porsche enthusiasts here, not PAG-investors, I don't think profitability is anything for us to get excited about... do their increased profit margins make your Pcar any more enjoyable to drive?
01-22-2006, 04:44 PM
#55
I'd trade my 993 anytime for a 356C Cabriolet in very good condition...does it make me a purist? I'd be tempted by a pristine 1970/71 911S as well...same as Steve McQueen drove in the "Le Mans" first scenes...I believe the 993 is the last one with the Porsche family's fingerprints and charisma...I'm a Porsche enthusiast from 1950 (not counting the Gmund cars) to 1998...please don't get upset...it's just some crazy guy's humble opinion... you sounded angry on your post!
Pedro,
No anger. Just amazement. I love all Porsches, especially the 993. Much of the "buzz" about the new 997 is it's retro return to the look of the 993. My point is that Porsches have gotten better and better. Don't give me that 993 inherent quality blather either, should we mention 02 sensor problems, sqeaking front windows (just apply a little vaseline) excessive oil use. Or fast forward to the 996 and 986 RMS problems, or how about the old divalar stud issues with the earlier 911s. My point is that we should appreciate the unique attributes each Porsche brings to the table. Regardless of any internal disputes no car drives or "feels" like a Porsche. Thought we were all in the same club.
Pedro,
No anger. Just amazement. I love all Porsches, especially the 993. Much of the "buzz" about the new 997 is it's retro return to the look of the 993. My point is that Porsches have gotten better and better. Don't give me that 993 inherent quality blather either, should we mention 02 sensor problems, sqeaking front windows (just apply a little vaseline) excessive oil use. Or fast forward to the 996 and 986 RMS problems, or how about the old divalar stud issues with the earlier 911s. My point is that we should appreciate the unique attributes each Porsche brings to the table. Regardless of any internal disputes no car drives or "feels" like a Porsche. Thought we were all in the same club.
01-22-2006, 04:56 PM
#56
Originally Posted by KBS911
Pedro,
No anger. Just amazement. I love all Porsches, especially the 993. Much of the "buzz" about the new 997 is it's retro return to the look of the 993. My point is that Porsches have gotten better and better. Don't give me that 993 inherent quality blather either, should we mention 02 sensor problems, sqeaking front windows (just apply a little vaseline) excessive oil use. Or fast forward to the 996 and 986 RMS problems, or how about the old divalar stud issues with the earlier 911s. My point is that we should appreciate the unique attributes each Porsche brings to the table. Regardless of any internal disputes no car drives or "feels" like a Porsche. Thought we were all in the same club.
No anger. Just amazement. I love all Porsches, especially the 993. Much of the "buzz" about the new 997 is it's retro return to the look of the 993. My point is that Porsches have gotten better and better. Don't give me that 993 inherent quality blather either, should we mention 02 sensor problems, sqeaking front windows (just apply a little vaseline) excessive oil use. Or fast forward to the 996 and 986 RMS problems, or how about the old divalar stud issues with the earlier 911s. My point is that we should appreciate the unique attributes each Porsche brings to the table. Regardless of any internal disputes no car drives or "feels" like a Porsche. Thought we were all in the same club.
01-22-2006, 05:40 PM
#57
Criticizing the new cars doesn't mean we're not "all in the same club." But people who say "the old cars had problems, the new cars have problems, so they're all the same," really show their lack of critical thinking. Using simplistic observations in an attempt to draw an "absolute equivalency" between pre-996 and post-996 cars is plain silly, and beneath the intelligence of (most) rennlisters.
Well now. Got me on that one. I didn't think we were talking quantum physics. Please excuse my simplistic observation of your idiotic response but, silly me, rather than stating an absolute equivalence I thought I was addressing a general relevance.
Well now. Got me on that one. I didn't think we were talking quantum physics. Please excuse my simplistic observation of your idiotic response but, silly me, rather than stating an absolute equivalence I thought I was addressing a general relevance.
01-22-2006, 05:59 PM
#58
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by KBS911
My point is that Porsches have gotten better and better. Thought we were all in the same club.
We are in the same club...just my approach is rather emotional than objective regarding the P-cars...I do acknowledge the technology advances but the new cars don't "talk" to me like the vintage ones...
01-22-2006, 07:00 PM
#59
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pcar964,
You know, funny that you mentioned Ferrari. Right after I posted my response, I was thinking the same thing: that Fiat left them their autonomy. Certainly given that course of action, I'd be ok with it. In some cases, a buy-out has been a boon. Vovlo is one marque that I feel has been left "whole" by Ford, yet it benefits from Ford's better distribution and manufacturing "machine," as it were.
I think you understand my point, save the "profitability" one. For PAG to remain profitable is good for us in the sense it staves off the buy-out vultures, and ultimately potential extinction, or homologation with, say, a Ford Fiesta. Whether PAG's independence translates into a more "fun" car was never my contention. Should PAG become less solvent, we all stand the potential to lose in the big picture, as Alfa Romeo did in the 80s.
Edward
You know, funny that you mentioned Ferrari. Right after I posted my response, I was thinking the same thing: that Fiat left them their autonomy. Certainly given that course of action, I'd be ok with it. In some cases, a buy-out has been a boon. Vovlo is one marque that I feel has been left "whole" by Ford, yet it benefits from Ford's better distribution and manufacturing "machine," as it were.
I think you understand my point, save the "profitability" one. For PAG to remain profitable is good for us in the sense it staves off the buy-out vultures, and ultimately potential extinction, or homologation with, say, a Ford Fiesta. Whether PAG's independence translates into a more "fun" car was never my contention. Should PAG become less solvent, we all stand the potential to lose in the big picture, as Alfa Romeo did in the 80s.
Edward
01-22-2006, 07:03 PM
#60
Originally Posted by Edward
pcar964,
You know, funny that you mentioned Ferrari. Right after I posted my response, I was thinking the same thing: that Fiat left them their autonomy. Certainly given that course of action, I'd be ok with it. In some cases, a buy-out has been a boon. Vovlo is one marque that I feel has been left "whole" by Ford, yet it benefits from Ford's better distribution and manufacturing "machine," as it were.
I think you understand my point, save the "profitability" one. For PAG to remain profitable is good for us in the sense it staves off the buy-out vultures, and ultimately potential extinction, or homologation with, say, a Ford Fiesta. Whether PAG's independence translates into a more "fun" car was never my contention. Should PAG become less solvent, we all stand the potential to lose in the big picture, as Alfa Romeo did in the 80s.
Edward
You know, funny that you mentioned Ferrari. Right after I posted my response, I was thinking the same thing: that Fiat left them their autonomy. Certainly given that course of action, I'd be ok with it. In some cases, a buy-out has been a boon. Vovlo is one marque that I feel has been left "whole" by Ford, yet it benefits from Ford's better distribution and manufacturing "machine," as it were.
I think you understand my point, save the "profitability" one. For PAG to remain profitable is good for us in the sense it staves off the buy-out vultures, and ultimately potential extinction, or homologation with, say, a Ford Fiesta. Whether PAG's independence translates into a more "fun" car was never my contention. Should PAG become less solvent, we all stand the potential to lose in the big picture, as Alfa Romeo did in the 80s.
Edward