fastbacker

My father's thinking of buying a 1997 or 1998 993S and is asking my help in finding one. He wants it for a daily driver. He would; although, like to push it on the twisty nothern California back roads and maybe do a few DEs. He wants to leave it pretty much stock. He doesn't know if he wants the C2S or the C4S.

Is the C4S alot safer at high speeds on twisty, potholed, back country roads?

Are the power to weight ratios much different?




Thanks-
Craig Backer

donsacto

Craig:

You might want to do search on 2wd vs 4wd. Lots of threads have discussed this issue. I would say a 4wd is probably safer but probably not as fun to drive than a rear wheel drive. The weight difference is minimal, ~100-200lbs. C4S experts, please chime

A C2S will be harder to find than a C4S as there were more C4S made. The C4S however does have the Big Red Brakes, same as the Twin Turbo, the C2S does not.

Good luck!

chris walrod

First off, welcome to Rennlist!

Personally, the C2S is what I would look for. I dont feel any one of those two 993 iterations would be safer at high speeds. Maybe in slick conditions the 4 would offer better (or safer) low(er) speed stability.

The 4S will have TT brakes as standard, 2S (unless optioned) will have normal 993 brakes. Not a deal breaker by any means. Standard brakes perform very well.

The 4S is heavier and understeers a bit more, but again, for street driving, I am not certain how much of that would be noticed.

Most of all, steer your Dad to a 993 in the best condition, documented etc. Colors play a role as well.
Have him drive many examples, and soon enough he will know what he likes.

Good luck in the search!!

EDIT: Don types faster than I

fastbacker

Thanks.

Are the brakes the the only difference between the the awd C4S and the rwd C2S?

What are desireable options for these cars?


Thank you all-
Craig Backer

p.s. I have two older project 911's but don't know anything about the newer ones.

Mark in Baltimore

Craig,

Welcome to Rennlist!

Owners of C4S' extoll the AWD virtues of their cars in the rain. The system won't defy the laws of physics, but it will help the car feel more stable in slippery conditions. As Don and Chris mentioned, there's more understeer (haven't actually driven one but my track buddies who have them always seem to be trying to dial out the push), and the weight is slightly higher by about 100 lbs. It's not a huge difference for the street. Also, don't forget that, due to the complexity, there will be possible future maintenance issues with the viscous coupling and associated hardware.

The C2S is going to understeer a bit more than a C2 due to the wider tires in the rear sticking better. Depending on how hard your dad drives, he may never feel it. It can always be dialed out by buying either TRG or Porsche RS sway bars, both of which are adjustable.

The standard brakes on the C2S/C2 are just fine for street or track, so don't worry too much about this factor.

I'm not sure if LSD (limited slip differential) is standard on C2S', but it would be the one option I would like to have. 993's used two plates in the diff, so, if an example you look at has LSD, it might be worn out after 40,000 miles. ABD (active braking differential) is another good option that uses the ABS to control rear wheelspin. Track junkies prefer to not have it.

Once you find something, take a look under the bonnet for the options sticker. With the codes, go to http://www.kindel.com/Porsche/options.asp and see what goodies are in the car.

Good luck!

mrsullivan

Agree with all that has been said here. I am not positive, but I dont think that the turbo brakes were even an option on the C2S. However, as most will tell you, they are really overkill on the street and maybe even track. They are very nice to have and look great, but as said, I would not make your decision on the brakes...the standard ones are unbelievable on the street.

Having driven both, I came to enjoy the feeling of being "pushed" from the back with the 2wd...and the nervous bobbly tendency of the front is kind of fun when you get used to it. However, bottom line is that both would be great and given your description, I would choose on condition, color, condition, location, condition, condition, etc...you get the point.

I wouldnt worry about whether the car is a 2S or 4S for your dad...

robroy72

Agree with Mr. Sullivan .. you are in CA, so 4WD probably isn't that much of an issue. The values of the cars are so similar, I would just find the one you like the most and go for that. You'll probably get the best value out of a 97 ... the 98s command a premium for being the last of the air cooled cars, your dad probably doesn't care too much about that.

MrClean

understeer
When it comes to understeer, I am very familar with an Audi TT 3.2, especially on the track. I have to think that what you guys are considering understeer is very minor compared to what I am used to. Anyone have experience to comment on this?
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LSD
Mark, can I take from your comment about the C2S that the C4S comes standard with LSD?
How important is this for those that plan to track the car?
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Desired Options
Along the same lines what is the "most desired/advised" setup for "the enthusiast".
=====

Great information and feedback on this forum. I am finding time spent on here very educational as a P-car newbie. This is a great source for learning about 993 and their options.

TIA for the input.

Mark in Baltimore

Hi MrClean,

Welcome to the 993 board!

I am not a C2S nor a C4S expert and am not sure if LSD is always a part of either platform. Sorry. You'll have to wait for someone else to post or do a search. I think the C4S has LSD...

LSD is very, very desirable for the track and helpful for the street, as it will prevent the inner wheel (or wheel with the least amount of grip) from spinning and propel you forward, as opposed to wasting energy by spinning the least grippiest tire. It is a serious benefit on tight tracks where there is alot of yaw to the car and will help (a clutch pack-type LSD and not a non-stock Torsen-style LSD) stabilize the car under heavy braking. I can really feel the absence of it at, say, the end of VIR's back straight when I'm trying to brake at the 1 marker, the car squirming around. You get used to it once you realize it won't kill you or do anything nasty. In other words, not having it will not be fatal on the track; I have an open diff on my race car, and although I really, really, really wish I had LSD, I find it the lack of it to be more noticeable at tight tracks such as CMP or VIR's south course.

"Enthusiast" is a matter of definition, like everything in life. I think that most people of the track guys seem to gravitate towards the C2, but maybe this is a matter of economics, as the C4S' and C2S' are more pricey. Some say that the C2 is better balanced and more lively than either S model; I think you can, with some effort via an adjustable susspension, make any of the platforms in question utterly neutral and forgiving and fast. What do I know? I'm just an average club racer who loves Porsches and who posts alot on Rennlist and am by no means an expert.

Good luck! Are you a 993 owner or looking to become one?

MrClean

Thanks for the welcoming, Mark.

I am not an owner, yet. I am just becoming educated. I have lusted after the 993's since they came out. My first memorable 993 experience was in a 96 C4S. It took several hours for the smile to fade from my face. Since then, I always put the car in the back of my head, waiting for the right time. I plan to pull the trigger within the next year or so, maybe sooner. We'll see. With so many variants and options, I feel like there is so much to learn before I feel ready to decide on what I want out of the car.

Terry Adams

The LSD option was about $1500, not standard on the 2S. It has been a worthwhile option for me, but I would not rule out a car without it because it can be added (eg Guard).

Mark in Baltimore

Cool. Some say the hunt is the joy, but I say owning it, driving it and enjoying as it was meant to be is the real nirvana.

ARM993

I'll extend my welcome to the 993 board also. Lots of good information and great people on here. I don't have an S but do have a C4. I've only driven on the street so far. No track time yet but hopefully will get some DE time this summer. On the street I really don't notice the difference much and I've driven both. I do think the steering is a little heavier but compared to your daily drivers you are still in a totally different car from the norm. On a few very tight hairpins the other day I did notice the front tires pulling me out of the turn as I came out. Probabaly why some folks call the all wheel drive training wheels but I'll take any added grip I can get. If he's prmarily going to use the car on the street with occasional track days I would focus on finding the best car possible and go with it. If I had planned on more focussed track work I would have looked for a C2, saved a few pounds, and stayed with rear wheel drive. Good luck.

SinVancouver

Looks like Kindel is down or gone at the moment

Chris Berendes

Another warm welcome from across the big pond. Did anybody mention that the C4 has slightly less trunk space, this might be something to consider if you plan on using the car as a daily driver.

cheers,
Chris