Newbiewan

OK folks...I bow to your expertise here

Just started a repair to an oil leak on my newly purchased '96 C4S and the source of my oil leak has been identified as one of the block case bolts (just above #1 cylinder). The mechanic says that the low mileage (23k) of the vehicle and the fact that oil leaks exist suggests that the car set for long periods without being driven. He also showed me that the rear main seal was leaking (not enough to affect the clutch yet though).

Here are his labor estimates to do the work:

12 hours engine removal
24 hours for: removal and replacement of all seals from case outward, replacement of power steering belt, replace seal behind fan pulley, resinstall engine
10 hours for: replacing o-rings on case through bolts (he said he will pull these one by one so he does not have to split the case)
3 hours for clutch, RMS, 30k maintenance items

Total of 49 hours

He said they can get a gasket kit for $700 and a clutch kit for $1k

The location of the oil leak was originally thought to be the seal between the cylinder to the block...I got the bad new$ about the actual location today. He said the clutch is probably 50%, but recommended replacing the disc, pilot bearing and some other small part (can't remember) at a minimum.

What do you think about his labor estimates?
What are typical labor rates for reputable shops?

This is definitely turning out to be more than I expected, but at least I will end up with an engine with fresh seals and a new clutch (I wonder what the incremental cost would be for him to inspect the valves? At this point I'm afraid to ask )

Any other insights or other questions/comments wecome.

Mike

viperbob

RUN AWAY. 12 hours just to remove an engine??? If they were morons, they should be able to do it in 4 hours even on a 4S. 3 hours for clutch, RMS, and 30K items???. With the engine out of the car, you are talking maybe 1 hour TOPs. The other times are also over inflated.

Parts overpriced (big time). You are being taken.

kkim

I think Bob just save you a whole bunch of money!

Chris C.

Talk to Bob at Performance Imports in Doraville or Bruce at Grand Touring Motorwerks in Atlanta. Small oil leaks are common on these motors (according to Bruce) and may not even need repair.

Pedro356C

Hi Mike...this is totally crazy...when I bought my car (28k miles), the gaskets were leaking as the car spent too much time sitting in the garage...my wrech replaced the upper and lower gaskets...8 hours labor...gasket kit costed me about $300...

As far as the main seal (flywheel)...better deal with it when you need to replace the clutch...

As ViperBob said...Run Forrest run....

epj993

Sounds like they quoted you "elapsed time", not actual labor

Newbiewan

The engine is already out of the car, so I am probably already stuck with these guys for the repairs. The original plan was to remove and replce the seals for all the block through bolts. I may just replace the one through bolt since the source of the leak appears to be pretty rare (according to Rennwerke). I also originally planned to remove all of the cylinders and replace all of the sales while the motor was out, but I am rethinking that now. I think I can get away with just pulling the #1 cylinder to get to the case bolt.

The oil leak definitely needs to be repaired. The oil is running down the side of the block and cooling fins on the #1 cylinder. You can clearly smell the oil even from inside the car.

How much are you guys paying for top end overhauls? I figure that the amount of work being done is certainly less than the work required for top end overhauls, since no valve work is being done.

Bull

Wow, I'm glad you didn't give us the hourly rate and the total for labor....we would all be fainting!

Get a couple of estimates from the known good, recommended shops in your area. They should be a lot more realistic and close to each other.

Regarding the RMS, find out how bad the leak really is....if it exists. the known RMS seal problems have caused the less reputable shops to tell almost all new 993 owners that they have a problem. When i bought mine, I had a RMS leak reported in less than 6 mos at 14k miles. I passed on the repair, and 6 months later my own shop guys said "what leak". 25k miles later the self healing car is still dry!

Newbiewan

He showed me the leak today. There was a path of damp gritt from the seal to the bottom of the bell housing. It's easy to get to at this point, so the RMS is not really driving the labor hours.

MrRoboto

What's a resonable labor time for clutch/flywheel work?

mrdraco

elapsed time...

viperbob

8-10 hours is the norm for a 4S. Some places will charge as much as 11-12 hours. But that is engine in/out, clutch changed, and most shops will do the RMS in those same times. (takes about 10 minutes maybe to get it out and the new one in).

trojanman

Hey Newbie...

I had my clutch replaced (w/ LWF street kit) when I had my top end work done... wrench charged me no labor since he was in there already.

As for the top end, mine was just under $5k which included new exhaust valves and non-OEM guides.

Newbiewan

OK...I don't feel quite as bad now...

After some back and forth with the service shop asking for clarification of the work being performed. And some concessions on the labor required. Here is exactly what I'm getting...

Major Labor Items
Replace all engine seals/gaskets outside of crank case
Remove all cylinders and replace base O-ring seals
Replace all o-rings for crank case through bolts
(Does not include valve job)

New Seals
Head Gasket Set
Engine case through bolt o-rings
cylinder base o-rings
Front Crankcase seal
Rear Main Seal

Tune Up Items
Oil Filter Large
Oil Filter Small
Air Filter
Fuel Filter
Spark Plugs
Dist Cap & Rotor
PS Belt
A/C Belt
Alternator Belt 1
Alternator Belt 2
Distributor Belt

Clutch Items
Flywheel Bolts
Clutch Kit
Pilot Bearing

Misc Item
SAI Check Valve

After all said and done...bill comes to $5K

I did some research today calling around some other recommended shops (4 to be exact). Estimates ranged from 3.5k on the low end to 8.5k on the high end (you can probably guess what establishment that came from). The average came to ~5k, so I don't feel quite as molested as I did yesterday.

Newbiewan definitely learned a valuable lesson though...Shop around when Up Fixen Der Porsche! Disclaimer...be sure to go to a reputable shop.

Cheers!

kkim

That is for parts and labor? If so, I'd say that is a great price. What finally was the number of hours they are going to charge for all the work?