Gregory993

As I mentioned in my last thread, I just purchased a '95 993 and had a PPI done by a local P dealer. I had a lot of faith in Porsche and their techs; before the inspection, I spoke with the person about to do it and said I am considering buying this vehicle, please be as thorough as possible in your inspection. I am completely new to Porsche and your inspection will be the deciding factor on whether or not I purchase this car.

Well, I put too much faith in the dealer and after bringing the car to my friend's shop for my own look (mind you, I OWN the vehicle now) I was disappointed not so much with the car as with the dealer and myself for trusting them too much.

BTW: I did indeed find a place that had the oil filters so I changed the oil while I was at it. The filters I pulled out were different brands: on the engine was a "CHAMP"(?) filter and the oil bag had another type. The looked clean but the person who'd changed it was a total hack; there were missing screws in the inner fender, the bolt for the bottom of the skirt near the drain was gone and the drain plug was knurled as if the guy was to lazy to put down his SAE wrench and get the right tool. There was a Sunoco sticker with the "next service date". Lovely.

Back to the PPI: I dropped the car off in the morning and picked it up 6hrs later and waited to speak with the tech. It was a long 6hrs because I didn't know if I'd have a "new" car or would be back online looking. I let this guy make the decision for me. I trusted he would be a meticulous as I am. He wasn't.

He told me what was wrong with the car, most of what he said was cosmetic nonsense. A stone chip. A slight crack in the fog light. He told me the passenger power seat didn't go forward or back (it most certainly works). I asked about the brakes and motor. He said the brakes are great, and the motor sounds fine and has plenty of power. I asked if there were oil leaks; he said no, then said yes, there was a very slight "sweating" but nothing to worry about. You get the gist of this conversation. Car's good, pay up $200 and have a nice day.

On the lift, I took the trays off and all 4 wheels. Oil was not sweating. It is leaking from the valve cover among other places. The car shows signs of having been repainted (poorly I might add, there's quite a large "curtain" on the lower rocker and some DA marks on the rim where the bodyguy got sloppy) and it looks like the left rear quarter has been repaired. There appeared to be a foam substance which is almost like the 2-part mix that expands and is used to make racing seats coming from the inner seams if the fender well. Maybe trying to seal an air leak? The oil level sender was leaking oil all over the inner fender, there were some very hard scrapes here and there (maybe some speed bump jumps) and the list goes on and on.

These problem areas are not a big deal. I can take care of all this when I have time. But knowing now how the dealer did not do their job as thoroughly as they should have makes me angry. I should know better.

milrad

This type of service from a dealer is reprehensible, but unfortunately not all that uncommon. I think you should "out" this dealer so others here can avoid this place and go to someone who still does care.

Thanks for sharing, and good luck with your repairs.

Jason

viperbob

Unfortunately, typical..... Some of the cars that I have seen from the dealer PPI or Certified would make you cringe. At this point, fix it and move on. Not much more you can do. I would try and get my money back at least for the PPI...

Gregory993

I'm waiting until I receive the printed report on Monday. I couldn't wait around for the official hardcopy, so the list of nonsense items is handwritten. After I get the report, I'll discuss it with the manager and see where it takes me. I had a high regard for the PPI process just from lurking on this site and searching. I truly thought they would go through it carefully and methodically. Perhaps I'm wrong, and a PPI does not include taking the trays off to find leaks or pulling a wheel or two to check brakes but for crying out loud, they should've seen the bodywork. I'd be surprised if they even had it on the lift.

Just to get some feedback, those of you who HAVE HAD a PPI done, can you tell me exactly what they did during the 2hrs labor you were charged? I want to go in there armed with a little knowledge on what I should have expected to be done. Frankly, my own PPI took 3 hours AND included an oil change!

viperbob

You basically check EVERYTHING on a PPI (if done properly). You check every switch, light, and electrical item. You make sure the Climate system is running properly (air blowing cold with thermometer and that heat is working and that all vents are blowing when they are supposed to). You look over every suspension, steering part. Look at the brakes and estimate life. Check that the motor is running properly (which includes a cold start). Also a leakdown and compression if you want the full sort of insurance package. Then the hard part. You look over everything in the car looking for leaks, things that are bent, and tell tale signs of ANY work done. It is really kind of a detective game. Does a part look too clean on the car compared to the rest? Do you see any Porsche parts labels on any parts (if so you know that it was replaced)? You can see for example if the engine has been removed, or the tranny has been dropped by either new nuts that have been installed, or cosmoline that has been disturbed (this is the only use for cosmoline that I have found). Is there any overspray on anything? And the list goes on.

See if they have any sort of a checklist at the dealer, and ask to see the results for your car. You should not just get a list of what is wrong, but a list of items checked and they were correct.

Texas993

I had a 928 PPI'd at my local dealer some time ago. The car was at the shop so I asked for a PPI while it was there, before I even saw the car. The PPI results were perfect and the Tech said it was a perfect car. When I checked out the car, it was a 4 out of 10 cosmetically. I could not believe it. So much for dealer PPI's, and this is a dealer where I know most of the employees.

But, I really think you need to give the shop a list of items to check in a PPI. Don't assume anything. Ask them to put it on a lift, look for paint and body damage, compression, etc, etc. A PPI may mean different things to different shops. Some may think it is a safety inspection, especially on a newer car in warranty.

Just my thoughts. Sorry for your tough luck, that sucks.

Avenger6

Just as an FYI, the brown "gunk" on the engine case isn't oil. It is the remnants of the "cosmoline" protectant put on by the factory.

Pedro356C

Hi Gregory...I'll second Avenger6's comments...your engine looks good actually...the head gaskets can get dry, especially for lack of driving, but it's not a big deal...put a cardboard (could be a flattened box) under the engine to check what kind of leaking you really have...don't worry much and enjoy your car...you'll be alright...

cesar

I had a PPI done by a shop that deals with Porsche, especially air cooled models.

He explained to me everything he did, how he started out and how he proceeded. He plugged in the computer to see if there were any codes, told me how much life I had on brakes and tires, inspected every inch for ANY sign of damage, modification, etc. Took temperature gauge to vents, etc. Just as Viper Bob explained.

Turns out I had a nice car. Mind you, when I looked at it, following all the advice from books and the internet, it appeared to be a car that was in good shape. However, I wanted a second opinion from an expert. In addition, I also had them do a compression and leak down which came back with excellent numbers.

I've heard that Porsche dealers and air cooled versions are not the way to go, typically. From what I hear, they don't have too many guys that spent a lot of time on earlier cars. I guess you may find a dealer that has a mechanic who's been there for a long time and worked on many air cooled cars, but indepent shops seem to be the way to go as they were probably air cooled/Porsche mechanics from day one.

Not to say that all independent shops are great, you really need to ask around and find a shop that has worked on air cooled versions. Word of mouth is the best advertisement.

Just my 2 cents and what I've heard out there..........Cesar

Gregory993

Thanks for the input. I didn't post other photos of the oil leak problem areas. It's actually quite oily in other spots, and the tray had a huge layer of gunked up oil on it. I figured the stuff on the case wasn't oil when I tried cleaning it but there are indeed leaks. I found extra bottles of mobil 1 underneath where the spare tire is.

Might as well add a few dumb questions, I really need an owners manual...again I'm new to this game:
- The spare is flat, is it supposed to be and is there a CO2 fill can of some sort?
- The alarm seems to go active as soon as the key is pulled from ign, requiring a push of the fob button. I don't have an extra fob. What do I do if the little battery runs out, is there a bypass?
-I drained oil bag and engine and pulled the oil lines, then added 12qts, now my gauge reads full always. I put too much in, right? (I bet there's a million posts on oil level)
-What speed does the spoiler come up and when would you use the manual button to raise or lower?

Ok, got the newbie questions out there, now everyone can tell me to search.

David in LA

- you should have an air compressor which is stored either in the spare tire recess or in the front bumper cavity
-there is no alarm bypass that I can recall...you need to buy spare batteries and keep them in the car...also a good idea to get a spare remote and keys
-you should not trust the oil gauge..use the dipstick
-you never need to manually lower/raise the spoiler...I think it comes up at 30mph or so

cabrio993

You have to use the electric air pump that came to the car to inflate the spare. If the pump is missing..they come up often on ebay.


Make sure you never run out of battery, or you'll be stranded. There is a key sequence that you can do to un-block the car but it requires an IQ of over 200 to get it to work. Always carry a spare battery in you glove compartment.

I would also suggest to buy and always carry a replacement DME relay. Cheap insurance against being left stranded.


You are probably 1/2 quart high. gauge should be half way. Always check oil level with dipstick, gauge is not reliable I have found.

45 mph. You can manually raise it to help cooling if stuck in traffic. Also, if you just push and quickly release the up button before you hit 45 mph, the spoiler will raise and stay up until you restart the car. This helps minimize the constant spolier up-down motion during city driving.

And yes...search is your frind. There are many posts regarding each one of your questions that makes for good reading.

Becoming a member to Rennlist was the best mod I have done to my p-car so far.

c993k

Hi Gregory.
Did I read this correctly? You paid $200 for a PPI and it included an Oil change at Porsche dealer?

Gregory993

No, I paid $203 precisely for the PPI at the Porsche dealer which was allegedly 2hrs labor. After I purchased the car a day later, I took it to my friend's shop and we did our own PPI as well as an oil change. I went through the car personally while up on a lift and changed the oil at the same time and it took me less than 3 hrs.

BobbyT

Hi Gregory,
I had a dealer PPI done on my Boxster when I sold it, at the buyer's request. It was just a cursory quickie to see if they could find any service work, a $200 rip-off.

Here is a great PPI guide by our late friend Paul Lighthill. You will pay a bit more for a PPI this thorough, but it is money well spent, and you will know what you are buying (or not):
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...repurchase.htm