Look what I found on my way to the gym today...
08-08-2005, 06:26 PM
#31
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I am sure LA isn't the only big town suffering from the impact of illegals on the healthcare system but here is an eye opening article.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=34198
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=34198
08-08-2005, 08:15 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by destaccado
Lost labor isn't the only point to it, they soak up medical insurance, take away jobs from citizens of our country, don't pay taxes etc etc.....they are called illegal's for a reason. Not sure why you have a problem with someone telling it how it is. In any case, why are you trying to point out that the illegal shouldn't have been driving because he wasn't insured? He shouldn't have been in the country in the first place! What is worse being an illegal or driving without insurance? I would say the former.....nothing wrong with being Mexican, I have been dating one for 5 years and love her dearly, great girl. In fact, she is more anti-illegal then I am. But clearly this acceptance of illegals (of all nationalities) in this country is getting out of hand IMHO- and I don't even live in the area where the majority of them are located...........Remember, it was you who assumed (by your own words), that he was referring to a Mexican when all he mentioned was illegals.....
My only reason for even posting this was the words you posted, "my only [controversial] point here is that if you wanted to sweep the street of Mexicans here in TX"....frankly, I find that to be more out of line then his comment- for one he never said Mexicans.Two, not all Mexican's are illegal and noone ever mentioned getting rid of hard working American citizens who happen to be Mexican......to clump those people in with illegal's just isn't right.....
On a side note, your car is one of my favorite on this board
My only reason for even posting this was the words you posted, "my only [controversial] point here is that if you wanted to sweep the street of Mexicans here in TX"....frankly, I find that to be more out of line then his comment- for one he never said Mexicans.Two, not all Mexican's are illegal and noone ever mentioned getting rid of hard working American citizens who happen to be Mexican......to clump those people in with illegal's just isn't right.....
On a side note, your car is one of my favorite on this board
2) I assumed we are talking about Mexicans because California, Arizona, and TX obviously have a problem with this issue due to proximity to the border, etc. Lets not play word games here, we all knew who he was talking about...no problem using the words because they are in fact illegals, but come on...
3) my only point in all this (and still believe it to be true) is that the financial impact from loss of our illegal Mexican labor in TX would be far greater than your insurance, medical, and other drains combined...
4) last...and admittedly very biased point - most of the "illegal" Mexican workforce in TX do a lot more to contribute to our society than a lot of US citizens...they tend to work harder, pay cash, theft and crime are relatively low (Catholicism at work I guess), etc... I for one would like to trade-in a lot of our welfare recipients draining on my taxes for some of these illegals that work their assess off and get work done...
5) I am glad you like my car
(sorry in advance John D., I know that this is now getting way off topic)
08-08-2005, 10:18 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior
Beautiful car, apparently run off road by illegal in a old pickup truck with no insurance. Sunset and Beverly Glen at the entrance to Bel Air. The car looks so out of place wrapped around the pole. Driver and passenger were fine as air bags deployed. Car is a tip w/71k miles, and will no doubt be totalled. Anyone need a 3.6 motor or parts? Pics taken with new Sony Ericsson K750i w/ 2 meg camera.
Err, how did you find out that the truck driver in question was "illegal"? Did the police offer up this information or was an INS person on hand to confirm their status? "Illegal" is usually a euphamism for poor people from Mexico, Central and Latin America. It is rarely used to describe Europeans, Asians and others, of which there are many in LA without proper visas.
Funny that this happened in Beverly Hills. An "illegal" in a pickup truck there most likely means that he was laboring for a very affluent resident who wanted to avoid paying witholding, workers comp and various other costs associated with hiring "legal" workers.
Accidents suck, as do uninsured motorists. Let's leave it at that. I hope that everyone involved is OK.
08-08-2005, 10:43 PM
#34
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Well said 993polar!
I am also tired of listening to people use the "illegal" term so freely these days. I wonder if these same people requests their landscaper, roofer, gutter cleaning guy, or any other laborer that perform jobs at their homes for proof of legal residency. I bet you they are happy to pay such a low rates for the services rendered and then turn around and complain about "illegals" and how they affect their way of life...pleeeease!
Uninsured motorists come from all walks of life...not all of them are "illegals"
I am also tired of listening to people use the "illegal" term so freely these days. I wonder if these same people requests their landscaper, roofer, gutter cleaning guy, or any other laborer that perform jobs at their homes for proof of legal residency. I bet you they are happy to pay such a low rates for the services rendered and then turn around and complain about "illegals" and how they affect their way of life...pleeeease!
Uninsured motorists come from all walks of life...not all of them are "illegals"
Last edited by cabrio993; 08-08-2005 at 11:13 PM.
08-08-2005, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 993polarsilver
Err, how did you find out that the truck driver in question was "illegal"? Did the police offer up this information or was an INS person on hand to confirm their status? "Illegal" is usually a euphamism for poor people from Mexico, Central and Latin America. It is rarely used to describe Europeans, Asians and others, of which there are many in LA without proper visas.
Funny that this happened in Beverly Hills. An "illegal" in a pickup truck there most likely means that he was laboring for a very affluent resident who wanted to avoid paying witholding, workers comp and various other costs associated with hiring "legal" workers.
Accidents suck, as do uninsured motorists. Let's leave it at that. I hope that everyone involved is OK.
Funny that this happened in Beverly Hills. An "illegal" in a pickup truck there most likely means that he was laboring for a very affluent resident who wanted to avoid paying witholding, workers comp and various other costs associated with hiring "legal" workers.
Accidents suck, as do uninsured motorists. Let's leave it at that. I hope that everyone involved is OK.
My apologies for the OT nature, of course.
08-08-2005, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsullivan
3) my only point in all this (and still believe it to be true) is that the financial impact from loss of our illegal Mexican labor in TX would be far greater than your insurance, medical, and other drains combined...
08-08-2005, 11:23 PM
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Hell. Illegal aliens should be allowed drivers license so they can be tracked and also insure they have adequate insurance, preferably more than the worthless minimum requirements. None of our cars get fixed or replaced on that measly amount of coverage.
Get real guys. Nobody, legal residents, (aka home boys) wants to pick crops, hang drywall, mow lawns. Native born people working in the trades are (9 out of 10) losers, lazy, drunks. Who wants somebody working on their home chosen from the bottom of the gene pool.
Get real guys. Nobody, legal residents, (aka home boys) wants to pick crops, hang drywall, mow lawns. Native born people working in the trades are (9 out of 10) losers, lazy, drunks. Who wants somebody working on their home chosen from the bottom of the gene pool.
08-08-2005, 11:36 PM
#38
Originally Posted by paradisenb
Hell. Illegal aliens should be allowed drivers license so they can be tracked and also insure they have adequate insurance, preferably more than the worthless minimum requirements. None of our cars get fixed or replaced on that measly amount of coverage.
Get real guys. Nobody, legal residents, (aka home boys) wants to pick crops, hang drywall, mow lawns. Native born people working in the trades are (9 out of 10) losers, lazy, drunks. Who wants somebody working on their home chosen from the bottom of the gene pool.
Get real guys. Nobody, legal residents, (aka home boys) wants to pick crops, hang drywall, mow lawns. Native born people working in the trades are (9 out of 10) losers, lazy, drunks. Who wants somebody working on their home chosen from the bottom of the gene pool.
08-09-2005, 01:47 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by 993polarsilver
Err, how did you find out that the truck driver in question was "illegal"? Did the police offer up this information or was an INS person on hand to confirm their status?
Funny that this happened in Beverly Hills.
Funny that this happened in Beverly Hills.
The accident was in Los Angeles, about 3 miles from B. Hills. Your assumption about B. Hills residents is without merit. Most home owners use agencies for their needs.
08-09-2005, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Stevarino
Well said. It is appalling that people, including contractors, hire illegals for a pittance while $200k of cars sit in their driveway. It is purely economic - i.e., people simply want cheap labor to maximize their lifestyle. Any other argument is laughable. The economy will not grind to a halt if we pay people here legally a living wage. It is, after all, the law. The law is designed to protect everybody, even the people who are being taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers.My apologies for the OT nature, of course.
Does your life place you in any contact with these people? You're out of touch Steve. Your comment about $200k cars gave you away. You posture is really about class envy and social agenda. This was a car accident where the victim will have to suffer the financial consequences because the perpetrator was unisured. That he was an illegal alien was only relevant beacuse it's all to common in So Cal this past decade. Most work hard, send money home to their families, and are generally good people. But that does not mean they don't have an impact, financial or otherwise, on our lives.
08-09-2005, 11:27 AM
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"Then you add in the fact that few illegals get any preventative or mainteance care and they use the emergency room as their personal physician"
but is this their fault, or the fault of the system?
but is this their fault, or the fault of the system?
08-09-2005, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mborkow
"Then you add in the fact that few illegals get any preventative or mainteance care and they use the emergency room as their personal physician"
but is this their fault, or the fault of the system?
but is this their fault, or the fault of the system?
08-09-2005, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mborkow
"Then you add in the fact that few illegals get any preventative or mainteance care and they use the emergency room as their personal physician"
but is this their fault, or the fault of the system?
but is this their fault, or the fault of the system?
As for the financial aspect, I agree with most of the comments, and I disagree with most of the comments
. I disagree that illegals will do jobs that legals won't do. (one of President Bush's favorites) In capitalism, the way I see it, if there is a job that people normally don't like to do, then the employer would need to pay as much as is required to have somebody finally do it. If the employer finds somebody illegal and pays them lower amount, then that is wrong (and not true capitalism). Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world, and my idea's of free/fair trade don't work 
Kimo
08-09-2005, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jrgordonsenior
Well Steve, not even in the People's Republic of Santa Monica are illegals hired for a pittance....standard wage for laborers at Home Depot is $10. per hour. And those laborers don't think they're being taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers. They fight for the opportunity to work here, it beats the $1. an hour they could maybe earn in Mexico or any other Central American country, that's IF they could find a job. Why do you think they keep coming? Because they want to be taken advantage of by those unscrupulpous employers?
Does your life place you in any contact with these people? You're out of touch Steve. Your comment about $200k cars gave you away. You posture is really about class envy and social agenda. This was a car accident where the victim will have to suffer the financial consequences because the perpetrator was unisured. That he was an illegal alien was only relevant beacuse it's all to common in So Cal this past decade. Most work hard, send money home to their families, and are generally good people. But that does not mean they don't have an impact, financial or otherwise, on our lives.
Does your life place you in any contact with these people? You're out of touch Steve. Your comment about $200k cars gave you away. You posture is really about class envy and social agenda. This was a car accident where the victim will have to suffer the financial consequences because the perpetrator was unisured. That he was an illegal alien was only relevant beacuse it's all to common in So Cal this past decade. Most work hard, send money home to their families, and are generally good people. But that does not mean they don't have an impact, financial or otherwise, on our lives.
When things get personal I always suspect folks are out of rational things to say. No, it's not class envy, as these people are my neighbors. I posted where I normally wouldn't because your post was a bit provincial and frankly, I was embarrassed for you, because you seemed like a decent bloke in previous posts. However, I imagine things are very different where you're from in the Valley. Bigotry is inexcusable, and your analysis regarding the cost to society was fundamentally flawed as it didn't take into account that we're all paying the health care, insurance premium increases, etc... for the illegals that people like you hire. If you can't afford to pay a laborer the going rate, get into another line of business, and spare everyone the attempt to mask what was clearly a racist comment.
Think about it before you write yet another post off topic.