Pictures of brake ducts!!
05-26-2003, 09:38 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pictures of brake ducts!!
I just came from two days at Sebring!! That is really a great track! On the second day I decided to run a little harder then I have been. Unfortunately it cost me my final run as I had break fad to the point that if I stayed out one more lap or hard braking turn I wouldn't have stopped. At least not before hitting the tire wall. So now I've come to the conclusion that I need to go with Big Reds . But I also want to install some cooling ducts. I've searched this topic & although it have been written about many times I have not seeen any pictures of this installed. So any would be appriciated!! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
05-26-2003, 10:12 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Just saw:
<a href="http://www.performanceproducts.com/ProductPage.aspx?productname=Performance+Air+Inlets&productid=104580&pro ducttype=20" target="_blank">Perf products</a>
<a href="http://www.performanceproducts.com/ProductPage.aspx?productname=Performance+Air+Inlets&productid=104580&pro ducttype=20" target="_blank">Perf products</a>
05-26-2003, 10:12 AM
#3
Three Wheelin'
What kind of pads are you running?
The popular cooling ducts (techart)in my opinion dont do that much as they dont get air to the eye of the rotor. This weekend I ran with a few 993 D class cars, all running stock brakes, no fade problems except Anir who wore his front pads down to the backing plates!! Unless you really want big reds, proper brake fluid, bled at the end of each track day, with good pads (Pagid,PF,Hawk) should work. If your really doing a lot of track work, flushing the fluid every other event will keep the system fresh but again I think that might be overkill. AJUSA also has a cooling kit, the only problem is that if you go off track the scoops that hang down get torn off and that gets expensive. One last thought, if your pad material gets worn down to less than the thickness of the backing plate, the heat transfer to the fluid gets much greater, hence the faster it will boil, and then fade
The popular cooling ducts (techart)in my opinion dont do that much as they dont get air to the eye of the rotor. This weekend I ran with a few 993 D class cars, all running stock brakes, no fade problems except Anir who wore his front pads down to the backing plates!! Unless you really want big reds, proper brake fluid, bled at the end of each track day, with good pads (Pagid,PF,Hawk) should work. If your really doing a lot of track work, flushing the fluid every other event will keep the system fresh but again I think that might be overkill. AJUSA also has a cooling kit, the only problem is that if you go off track the scoops that hang down get torn off and that gets expensive. One last thought, if your pad material gets worn down to less than the thickness of the backing plate, the heat transfer to the fluid gets much greater, hence the faster it will boil, and then fade
05-26-2003, 10:40 AM
#4
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eric:
I have Super Blue with Carbotech's Panther Plus pads. I still have alot of pad left & I was very happy with them until I got a little more agresive.
I am looking for something that could be ducted from the air scoops at the fog lights.
I have Super Blue with Carbotech's Panther Plus pads. I still have alot of pad left & I was very happy with them until I got a little more agresive.
I am looking for something that could be ducted from the air scoops at the fog lights.
05-26-2003, 12:06 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
For track events I run Pagid Oranges on my stock brake system and keep fresh ATE Super Blue in the veins (I flush the system after two track days).
All I can say is, this combo works very nicely - I personally have no reason to upgrade to Big Reds. Pagid pads are awewsome on the track - they don't fad and just keep getting better as the day progresses. After two days though, I change the brake fluid. I could possibly get one more track day in on the fluid, but I prefer changing at this interval.
You want red calipers? Remove the calipers and have them powder coated. I'm actually doing my brakes this week (new rotors & fluid) and am going to powder coat my anchors
I'll post pics later.
All I can say is, this combo works very nicely - I personally have no reason to upgrade to Big Reds. Pagid pads are awewsome on the track - they don't fad and just keep getting better as the day progresses. After two days though, I change the brake fluid. I could possibly get one more track day in on the fluid, but I prefer changing at this interval.
You want red calipers? Remove the calipers and have them powder coated. I'm actually doing my brakes this week (new rotors & fluid) and am going to powder coat my anchors
I'll post pics later.
05-26-2003, 05:34 PM
#6
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Kristoffer, hello. It sure was fun there!
Yesterday was my first DE with no brake problems!!
Like I told you, I have new OEM rotors, PF 97 pads & super blue fluid.
I've always had problems with fading etc. but with this set up, it was great! No fade, pedal stayed pretty darn firm, and stopping power was great! I was really exited since I've always has some kind of braking problems!
My best lap was 2.39 and I was braking quite late & hard (in the last session especially) so since they worked with me, I'm sure they'll work fine with you too.
Don't blow all your money on big reds yet and try these (or Pagid Oranges) first and if they don't work (I'm pretty sure they will), then go with big reds.
I have cooling ducts, I have the fog lights openings & then some 2.5" tubing from there to the brakes.
Not the most effective set up but sure should help some. Here are shots of my cooling duct set up:
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct2.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct3.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct4.jpg" alt=" - " />
Yesterday was my first DE with no brake problems!!
Like I told you, I have new OEM rotors, PF 97 pads & super blue fluid.
I've always had problems with fading etc. but with this set up, it was great! No fade, pedal stayed pretty darn firm, and stopping power was great! I was really exited since I've always has some kind of braking problems!
My best lap was 2.39 and I was braking quite late & hard (in the last session especially) so since they worked with me, I'm sure they'll work fine with you too.
Don't blow all your money on big reds yet and try these (or Pagid Oranges) first and if they don't work (I'm pretty sure they will), then go with big reds.
I have cooling ducts, I have the fog lights openings & then some 2.5" tubing from there to the brakes.
Not the most effective set up but sure should help some. Here are shots of my cooling duct set up:
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct2.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct3.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Duct4.jpg" alt=" - " />
05-26-2003, 07:43 PM
#7
Addicted Specialist
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Kristoffer,
I'm with Eric and Oleg on this one. I TimeTrial and I've never had issues with fade. Before the event, I bleed with SuperBlue and pop in PFC 97 pads and I'm good to go: solid, consistent feel throughout the weekend, even in summer heat. I've heard the same with other drivers (faster than me) with Pagids and stock setup...no fade with them, as well. Granted there are others faster than I am who will use their brakes harder, but I'm about midpack in my field and still find there's a whole lot of "reserve" left in terms of braking potential. Perhaps you should evaluate the brake pads your're using, or rotors have gone thin? Perhaps you're braking earlier and/or harder than you should be? I know when I first transitioned form OEM Textars to dedicated track pads, I was overslowing the car like crazy (in fact, I still am, which describes why I'm ONLY midpack and not faster!).
Edward
I'm with Eric and Oleg on this one. I TimeTrial and I've never had issues with fade. Before the event, I bleed with SuperBlue and pop in PFC 97 pads and I'm good to go: solid, consistent feel throughout the weekend, even in summer heat. I've heard the same with other drivers (faster than me) with Pagids and stock setup...no fade with them, as well. Granted there are others faster than I am who will use their brakes harder, but I'm about midpack in my field and still find there's a whole lot of "reserve" left in terms of braking potential. Perhaps you should evaluate the brake pads your're using, or rotors have gone thin? Perhaps you're braking earlier and/or harder than you should be? I know when I first transitioned form OEM Textars to dedicated track pads, I was overslowing the car like crazy (in fact, I still am, which describes why I'm ONLY midpack and not faster!).
Edward
Trending Topics
05-26-2003, 08:58 PM
#8
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Finn:
Thanks for the pictures!! Nice Coilovers!! Did you have to remove your bumper to run the hoses?? How long did it take??
Where did you get your pads from?
Edward:
My Rotors are new in fact this was fronts second track day & the rears first.
Thanks for the pictures!! Nice Coilovers!! Did you have to remove your bumper to run the hoses?? How long did it take??
Where did you get your pads from?
Edward:
My Rotors are new in fact this was fronts second track day & the rears first.
05-26-2003, 09:28 PM
#9
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
No problem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
You don't have to take the bumper out for these.
Fender lines you have to but that is not a big deal. There is one slight PITA in this project: where a/c radiator is, the plate that blocks the air (you know what I'm talking about when you take alook) is quite thick and you have to run the hose through it. I didn't want to remove the radiator so cutting the hole to it was a bit challenging. Other side (oil cooler) is piece of cake since you can remove the packing plate.
Unfortunately I forgot the camera when I did this, otherwise I'd have nice DIY shots...
Performance Friction pads I got through Chris' firm (the vette guy who was at Sebring with me) but I'm sure others will let you know where to get them (Edward?). Or maybe I can ask him to order you a set?
You don't have to take the bumper out for these.
Fender lines you have to but that is not a big deal. There is one slight PITA in this project: where a/c radiator is, the plate that blocks the air (you know what I'm talking about when you take alook) is quite thick and you have to run the hose through it. I didn't want to remove the radiator so cutting the hole to it was a bit challenging. Other side (oil cooler) is piece of cake since you can remove the packing plate.
Unfortunately I forgot the camera when I did this, otherwise I'd have nice DIY shots...
Performance Friction pads I got through Chris' firm (the vette guy who was at Sebring with me) but I'm sure others will let you know where to get them (Edward?). Or maybe I can ask him to order you a set?
05-26-2003, 09:41 PM
#10
Drifting
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: La Jolla, CA
Posts: 2,166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Finn,
Very nice! I have not seen anything in pics so it is nice to see a set up.
Question about the hose forward in the car. Do you have any rubbing issue when you turn the wheel inward toward the car nose? I already have some rubbing on the inner fender wall as it is. Mostly due to going to wheel lock on occasion, but was wondering also how hard it is to replace the hoses just in the wheel area?
Very nice! I have not seen anything in pics so it is nice to see a set up.
Question about the hose forward in the car. Do you have any rubbing issue when you turn the wheel inward toward the car nose? I already have some rubbing on the inner fender wall as it is. Mostly due to going to wheel lock on occasion, but was wondering also how hard it is to replace the hoses just in the wheel area?
05-26-2003, 09:53 PM
#11
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Kary,
You will rub the hose ( I have the same set up as FF)if you turn the wheel too much. My mechanic made some protective plates out of some sheet metal or aluminum and even though I might still rub, it won't damage the hose, he riveted these to the inside fender wells. Just don't go lock to lock in tight quarters. It is just another compromise when dealing with a track car.
You will rub the hose ( I have the same set up as FF)if you turn the wheel too much. My mechanic made some protective plates out of some sheet metal or aluminum and even though I might still rub, it won't damage the hose, he riveted these to the inside fender wells. Just don't go lock to lock in tight quarters. It is just another compromise when dealing with a track car.
05-26-2003, 11:01 PM
#12
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Kary,
Greg is dean on (as always).
I actually don't have rubbing issues but I'm running either 225-18" or 225-17" (street or track) tyres with OEM offset.
If you missed, the tube is 'squished' where the tyre would hit it. It comes out from the fender well maybe about 1.5" (it's 2.5" tube) and with my tyres, if I go full ock up, it barely misses the tube. Even now, I try to avoid the full lock up (I have memorized the position of the wheel so I know where I'm close enough).
I'm thinking of doing that section out of aluminum, for same reasons Greg will have those protective plates.
Greg,
How have you attach the hose to the suspension/brake area? As you can see, I have only zip ties and I'd like to do something more 'engineered'. I will probably make a backing plate with tube for the hose but i was thinking if you have found a good way of doing it otherwise?
Greg is dean on (as always).
I actually don't have rubbing issues but I'm running either 225-18" or 225-17" (street or track) tyres with OEM offset.
If you missed, the tube is 'squished' where the tyre would hit it. It comes out from the fender well maybe about 1.5" (it's 2.5" tube) and with my tyres, if I go full ock up, it barely misses the tube. Even now, I try to avoid the full lock up (I have memorized the position of the wheel so I know where I'm close enough).
I'm thinking of doing that section out of aluminum, for same reasons Greg will have those protective plates.
Greg,
How have you attach the hose to the suspension/brake area? As you can see, I have only zip ties and I'd like to do something more 'engineered'. I will probably make a backing plate with tube for the hose but i was thinking if you have found a good way of doing it otherwise?
05-26-2003, 11:09 PM
#13
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Flying Finn:
<strong>
Greg,
How have you attach the hose to the suspension/brake area? As you can see, I have only zip ties and I'd like to do something more 'engineered'. I will probably make a backing plate with tube for the hose but i was thinking if you have found a good way of doing it otherwise?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have just the zip ties as you do. Look at this webpage for these brake ducts. I just emailed them for a price quote. The fender liner protection thingy is nice and might allow you to run a much larger hose. I want to get the GT2 piece that encapsulates the hub behind the rotor and forces air through the middle of the rotor, the piece they made would be good but not perfect IMO. What you and I have done certainly helps force cool air into the area but it is not 100% efficient.
<a href="http://www.scargoracing.com/html/brakes.htm" target="_blank">http://www.scargoracing.com/html/brakes.htm</a>
<strong>
Greg,
How have you attach the hose to the suspension/brake area? As you can see, I have only zip ties and I'd like to do something more 'engineered'. I will probably make a backing plate with tube for the hose but i was thinking if you have found a good way of doing it otherwise?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have just the zip ties as you do. Look at this webpage for these brake ducts. I just emailed them for a price quote. The fender liner protection thingy is nice and might allow you to run a much larger hose. I want to get the GT2 piece that encapsulates the hub behind the rotor and forces air through the middle of the rotor, the piece they made would be good but not perfect IMO. What you and I have done certainly helps force cool air into the area but it is not 100% efficient.
<a href="http://www.scargoracing.com/html/brakes.htm" target="_blank">http://www.scargoracing.com/html/brakes.htm</a>
05-27-2003, 09:59 AM
#15
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Kim,
I am sure you could do something cheaper. If you are doing it yourself it would be cost effective but to have your mechanic fabricate something at $70/hr vs. buying a off the shelf type of part it may not be cost effective. You could use some pvc pipe or what I did was take some fiberglass tubing and put it inside of the duct work in the area where it might get crushed. The aluminum protection plates seem to be the easiest and most durable for the $$ though.
I am sure you could do something cheaper. If you are doing it yourself it would be cost effective but to have your mechanic fabricate something at $70/hr vs. buying a off the shelf type of part it may not be cost effective. You could use some pvc pipe or what I did was take some fiberglass tubing and put it inside of the duct work in the area where it might get crushed. The aluminum protection plates seem to be the easiest and most durable for the $$ though.