993 vs 996 Drivability Differences? What's a fair price?
10-23-2001, 02:02 AM
#2
Passed On
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Silver Bullet (whoever you are), drive them all and make up your own mind. The 993 will definitely give you more "feedback" both thru the steering and your butt. Some folks like it (generally ones with many years of previous 911 ownership), some don't (generally ones with no previous 911 driving background).
The 996's generally have somewhat higher performance envelopes and require less driving "finesse" to wring out the maximum performance. You need driving experience to get the most out of a 993 (like what the Porsche Club puts on at various race tracks). Definitely have to practice the stay-on-the-gas technique for best/safest cornering (I can induce my 993 to go from neutral/slight understeer to definite oversteer by lifting on the gas by about 1/8th of an inch when cornering at the limit at speed). C4 bit more stable than C2, but still will oversteer in the hands of a not-too-careful driver at the limit.
Do an archive search; I think you'll find 993s give less problems than a 996.
The 996's generally have somewhat higher performance envelopes and require less driving "finesse" to wring out the maximum performance. You need driving experience to get the most out of a 993 (like what the Porsche Club puts on at various race tracks). Definitely have to practice the stay-on-the-gas technique for best/safest cornering (I can induce my 993 to go from neutral/slight understeer to definite oversteer by lifting on the gas by about 1/8th of an inch when cornering at the limit at speed). C4 bit more stable than C2, but still will oversteer in the hands of a not-too-careful driver at the limit.
Do an archive search; I think you'll find 993s give less problems than a 996.
10-23-2001, 04:05 AM
#3
7th Gear
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After 1 year of 996 cab ownership (and may previous 911s), I'll toss in my .02.
The 996 is definitely more refined, and I feel the engine is more flexible and responsive. I also agree that it is less nervous as one nears the limit. I'm also amazed at how much less wind noise (top up and down) there is vs the 993 cab. I can drive a good 40-50k faster (I'm an American living in Germany). Overall, the 993 provides more feedback and communication, but the 996 turn-in is great, and I really don't feel less "sporty" while driving it.
Don't like the interior - it feels really cheesy compared to the 993. I'm getting used to it, however. THe pedal layout also suits my feet a bit better, allowing me to better heel and toe.
Don't like the looks nearly as well as the 993 (one of the most beautiful they made).
Love the cab top. Not having to deal with the tonneau cover is great. Also like the very noticable increase in chassis stiffness.
C2 vs C4: For me, a 993 C4 feels numb compared to a C2, and destroys the 911 feel that I love. With the 996, I noticed less of deterioration in steering feel, although I still chose the C2.
My 996 is an '01, and I've had no problems with it (currently at about 20,000k).
The advantages of the 996 cab won out for me, but if I was going for a coupe, I would probably still go for a 993 C2S.
Perhaps I should get some change back...
Lee
The 996 is definitely more refined, and I feel the engine is more flexible and responsive. I also agree that it is less nervous as one nears the limit. I'm also amazed at how much less wind noise (top up and down) there is vs the 993 cab. I can drive a good 40-50k faster (I'm an American living in Germany). Overall, the 993 provides more feedback and communication, but the 996 turn-in is great, and I really don't feel less "sporty" while driving it.
Don't like the interior - it feels really cheesy compared to the 993. I'm getting used to it, however. THe pedal layout also suits my feet a bit better, allowing me to better heel and toe.
Don't like the looks nearly as well as the 993 (one of the most beautiful they made).
Love the cab top. Not having to deal with the tonneau cover is great. Also like the very noticable increase in chassis stiffness.
C2 vs C4: For me, a 993 C4 feels numb compared to a C2, and destroys the 911 feel that I love. With the 996, I noticed less of deterioration in steering feel, although I still chose the C2.
My 996 is an '01, and I've had no problems with it (currently at about 20,000k).
The advantages of the 996 cab won out for me, but if I was going for a coupe, I would probably still go for a 993 C2S.
Perhaps I should get some change back...
Lee
10-23-2001, 08:53 PM
#4
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Melbourne Beach, Florida
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
993
'nuf said
Seriously, I was going to purchase a '99 996 from my co-worker and stumbled on a 993 at the dealership when I was comparing 996 prices. It was love at first sight. Driving is much tighter and the feeling is a 'raw' sports car. The 996 is nice. Nice is the best word for it. Nice, yeah that's it. The 993 is awesome.
Do what I did:
Drive the two then park them next to each other. The choice will be clear. I never dreamed of purchasing an OLDER car over a newer one. Also FYI, the cost for the '99 996 with 23K miles was $59K. The price for my '95 993 with 55K miles (same overall condition) was $41K. I found that the 993s held their value longer and the owners usually had several other 911s before the 993.
About the only 911 that I would consider upgrading to would be the 996 Twin Turbo.
'nuf said
Seriously, I was going to purchase a '99 996 from my co-worker and stumbled on a 993 at the dealership when I was comparing 996 prices. It was love at first sight. Driving is much tighter and the feeling is a 'raw' sports car. The 996 is nice. Nice is the best word for it. Nice, yeah that's it. The 993 is awesome.
Do what I did:
Drive the two then park them next to each other. The choice will be clear. I never dreamed of purchasing an OLDER car over a newer one. Also FYI, the cost for the '99 996 with 23K miles was $59K. The price for my '95 993 with 55K miles (same overall condition) was $41K. I found that the 993s held their value longer and the owners usually had several other 911s before the 993.
About the only 911 that I would consider upgrading to would be the 996 Twin Turbo.
10-24-2001, 01:56 PM
#5
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Melbourne Beach, Florida
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a '01 530i non-sport. I post on www.bimmer.org under the E39 board not very much though as the BMW is more of a business car and is stock except for window tint.
10-24-2001, 11:07 PM
#6
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Sean and Bullet
funny how so many of us end up with similar garages.
I also have '01 530i. Silver over black. Sport Suspension. Luxury package.
A wonderful long distance driver. Cruise all day in the rain at 80-90, and could go quicker comfortably, but I suppose on the interstate that would be irresponsible.
Our is not a six-speed however, since it is my wife's, or at least she thinks it is.
As to the question that started the thread, they both are wonderful cars. Drive 'em both.
and the one you get out of with the bigger grin is the one to buy.
For me...
993
Mike in Chi
funny how so many of us end up with similar garages.
I also have '01 530i. Silver over black. Sport Suspension. Luxury package.
A wonderful long distance driver. Cruise all day in the rain at 80-90, and could go quicker comfortably, but I suppose on the interstate that would be irresponsible.
Our is not a six-speed however, since it is my wife's, or at least she thinks it is.
As to the question that started the thread, they both are wonderful cars. Drive 'em both.
and the one you get out of with the bigger grin is the one to buy.
For me...
993 Mike in Chi
10-25-2001, 01:05 AM
#7
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Melbourne Beach, Florida
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh my! My 530i is silver with light gray leather and Steptronic. My 993 is black.... eeerie....
BTW Silver Bullet. Since we all have the same apparent tastes in cars let me be the first to welcome you to the 993 board WHEN you purchase a 993.
Sean
BTW Silver Bullet. Since we all have the same apparent tastes in cars let me be the first to welcome you to the 993 board WHEN you purchase a 993.
Sean
Trending Topics
10-25-2001, 11:17 AM
#9
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
(SFX: TwilightZone theme music)
this is getting very weird, I have a Grand Cherokee also (I do get to enjoy Chicago's winter for four months). It's that kind of khaki/gold color.
Any moment Rod Serling will step out of the shadows, or at least post a message...
this is getting very weird, I have a Grand Cherokee also (I do get to enjoy Chicago's winter for four months). It's that kind of khaki/gold color.
Any moment Rod Serling will step out of the shadows, or at least post a message...
10-25-2001, 07:54 PM
#10
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Bullet
Problem areas:
there have been a number of posts on this, so do an archive search.
The 993 cars are renowned for basically being bulletproof (no pun intended).
Weaker areas are the clutch slave cylinder, creaking windshields. Some widebodies had weak glass in the rear windows. all relatively minor in the scheme of things.
Early cars, (95) are prone to an electrical harness problem.
I'm sure others can chimed in.
Youj live in a great part of the country for one of these
M in C
Problem areas:
there have been a number of posts on this, so do an archive search.
The 993 cars are renowned for basically being bulletproof (no pun intended).
Weaker areas are the clutch slave cylinder, creaking windshields. Some widebodies had weak glass in the rear windows. all relatively minor in the scheme of things.
Early cars, (95) are prone to an electrical harness problem.
I'm sure others can chimed in.
Youj live in a great part of the country for one of these
M in C
10-25-2001, 10:01 PM
#11
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: SF Bay Area (Lafayette)
Posts: 617
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-28-2001, 01:22 PM
#12
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Silver Bullet
I haven't been tracking C2S prices, except to note that they have been maintaining a differential with narrow-body prices.
Overall, this market seems to have held prices better based on some of the reports other rennlisters have made.
In this morning's Trib, there were only two C2S: '97 with 26K for $52,990 and a '98 with 12K for $64,990. Those are listed prices from a dealer. No info on options. There was one other listed car, but no price quoted--I could call if your desperate for comparative prices.
Hope this helps
Mike In Chi
I haven't been tracking C2S prices, except to note that they have been maintaining a differential with narrow-body prices.
Overall, this market seems to have held prices better based on some of the reports other rennlisters have made.
In this morning's Trib, there were only two C2S: '97 with 26K for $52,990 and a '98 with 12K for $64,990. Those are listed prices from a dealer. No info on options. There was one other listed car, but no price quoted--I could call if your desperate for comparative prices.
Hope this helps
Mike In Chi
10-28-2001, 07:10 PM
#13
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I keep waiting for the bad news Bears to show up, but so far they keep winning. This is very unusual for Chicago sports fans in the fall
Once you get the 993, there will be less time for the Niners. I took mine out in the 3rd when the Bears were down to touchdowns. Luckily I was back for most of the fourth.
Keep us posted about your search?
Have you driven laguna? (excuse me, Mazda Raceway at laguna Seca
)
I did the Skippy race school out there a few years ago. What a great track.
M in C
Once you get the 993, there will be less time for the Niners. I took mine out in the 3rd when the Bears were down to touchdowns. Luckily I was back for most of the fourth.
Keep us posted about your search?
Have you driven laguna? (excuse me, Mazda Raceway at laguna Seca
)I did the Skippy race school out there a few years ago. What a great track.
M in C
10-30-2001, 02:53 AM
#14
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Silver Bullet - saw the discussion & noted that you & I are of like mind & neighbors. Just purchased a '96 993 from a dealer north of San Jose. It seemS that the 96, 97, and 98 will all be in the same category years from now...the last & best version of the air-cooled flat 6. Low miles will mean more than model year I suspect. WRT to running at MRLS - I've run with friends at Laguna Seca in High Performance Driving Events - and driven my beater (Acura) at Sears Point - not sure I have the guts yet to take my 993 to an unforgiving road course yet. Bottom line is I LOVE THIS CAR & driving it!
10-30-2001, 01:14 PM
#15
SB,
The 993 is beautiful, but the 996 is a far superior automobile. Problems with the 996 have been blown out of proportion. I have not seen many 993's at the top level of racing on the track lately, so I am not for sure how much merit some of the feedback comments have. As Ray said, drive both and make your own call. Mark my words, Ray will be in a 996 before it is over. He is still in a bad state of denial.
Regards,
Scott
The 993 is beautiful, but the 996 is a far superior automobile. Problems with the 996 have been blown out of proportion. I have not seen many 993's at the top level of racing on the track lately, so I am not for sure how much merit some of the feedback comments have. As Ray said, drive both and make your own call. Mark my words, Ray will be in a 996 before it is over. He is still in a bad state of denial.
Regards,
Scott