Bokonon

Its been 2 weeks since I have had the opportunity to take her out and this morning I go to the garage, turn on and off the alarm to get her ready. Everything seems to be working fine, I hear the click, click of the door locks and see the red light on the door flash normally.

Put the key in and turn it. Nada. No rat-tat-tat. Nothing. Silence. All of the dash lights come on fine. No security light on. Radio turns on, air turns on.

So I hook up the truck battery (following Porsche manual instructions) and leave truck running for a minute, hooked up to the 993. I turn on/off the alarm again and try to start her. Nada. Silence when I turn the key.

Checking thru the archives it doesn't seem like a DME problem. Also checking the archives it seems like perhaps I didn't wait long enough with the batteries connected before starting up the 993.

So when I get home from work tonight I will let her sit a bit longer (while connected to the trucks battery) before starting her up. Any other ideas??

The only other thing I can think of is the last time I started her I had to hold the key in the start position for a few extra seconds longer before it started turning over.

thanks in advance
-terry

STLPCA

Terry
1. Why do you believe "it doesn't seem like a DME problem?"
2. Have you done any tests to determine if the battery is dead? Checked voltage? Do the headlights light & if so, do they go out when the key gets to the start position? BTW, the alarm/immobilizer system is sensitive to low battery voltage.

vjd3

Could be an ignition switch failure? Or frozen/dead starter motor?

Vic
95 C4 cab

Bokonon

Thank you very much for the help guys.

Dan,
My understanding from the archives of DME failure is that the engine will try to turn over. I am getting nothing. If I am mistaken, please let me know as i have no direct experience with DME failure. I will check voltage tonight, I didn't think of trying headlights either. Will try that as well.
Interesting to know that the immobilizer is sensitive to voltage. I will try letting the battery charge up some more before starting tonight. Argh, I feel so helpless at work. I want to be at home tinkering with it!

Vic, I really hope it doesn't get to that, but how can I test for these? I would think a starter problem would be more evident if the engine was warm, but I guess if its sitting awhile, this could be a problem too. Will the starter just fail all of a sudden or will I see some symptoms before it goes... thanks much.
-terry

vjd3

What made me think of that is you said you had to hold the ignition key to get it to start last time ... if it's a bad contact in the switch, maybe it's not sending power to the starter motor. I'm sure there's procedure for checking this; applying voltage to the starter motor would see if it spins or not. I had a dead starter motor in my old 911SC and had to do a rolling start on a it a couple of times to get it going. Not sure I would try that on a 993, though. A starter is like anything else ... it can fail suddenly, or work intermittently.

Vic
95 C4 cab

Bruce SEA 993

Sometimes the battery can drain in as little as two weeks. I had that happen 5 years ago with the original battery and now I keep the battery charged with the onboard trick charger if it sits for more than one week. In the winter, the load on the electrical system is more as the headlights are on more. A quick test of you battery will help a lot on the way to solving this one.

Good Luck!

swftiii

Bokonon,

Try the DME first. It is cheap and can affect the electronics pretty significantly. If that isn't it then you can research other areas.

You should have a spare one to try anyway, Right? That was the first thing I bought because of this board and it has saved me a hell of a tow and a track weekend by just having a spare in the car. Once I used that one, I got another spare and it is sitting in the passenger arm rest for the future.

Good Luck

Skip

Bokonon

Yeah I am going to head out this afternoon and pick up a couple DME Relays just to be safe.
thanks for your help everyone.
-terry

Bokonon

A little update.

She still won't start. Tried keeping jumpers connected for 15 minutes and then tried starting her. Same results.

If I have headlights on, they dim while trying to start the car.

I bought a DME relay and plugged it in. Same result.

Tomorrow morning I will pick up a voltmeter for testing battery. Any recommended way to check it?

thanks in advance
-terry

Phil

immobilizer?

User 4221

Have you tried to start the car with jumper cables attached to the truck? If so, then I think your problem is not with the battery. If your battery is marginally OK, the truck battery will provide enough assistance to help the P-car battery. The truck battery would not help if the P-car battery was shorted internally. If that were the case you would see no electrical activity.

For dynamic batttery testing it's best to have an analog (needle) type volt meter unless you don't mind holding the ignition in the start position for an extended period.
The reason I say this is because a digital meter display is slow to report the actual voltage.

If your only option is digital, then attach the voltmeter to the battery and have someone turn the ignition key to the start position and hold for a few seconds. This will allow the voltmeter to display battery voltage.

When starting an engine in healthy condition a solid battery will drop to 10 - 11 Volts. A weak battery will drop further.

Since you hear no activity from the starter when doing trying to start the car but the headlights dim this tells me that there is current draw somewhere.
This is a long shot, but I would suspect the starter solenoid. It could be shorted internally allowing current to flow through the solenoid but not engage the starter.

Another failure point is the immobilizer. I'm not familiar with its operation as my '95 doesn't have one. Does it have a relay in the system for starter interrupt? Does it interrupt fuel?

If it's a starter interrupt, then I'd find the relay and bypass it with a jumper wire.

HTH,
Scott

Bokonon

Connected up a digital voltmeter and watched it as I held the key in the start position for about 5 seconds. It dropped from about 12.11 to 11.80 and still nothing but silence.

Interesting theory Scott about the starter solenoid. Is this a pricey part?
thanks for the help guys,
-terry

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Terry:

I shall assume that your jumper cables are in perfect condition and you have an excellent connection at each battery,.....I cannot tell you the number of times I've seen problems with these two things,...

12.11 volts is a half-dead battery and might not have enough current capacity to engage the starter. I load test these things,... When you jump start a dead vehicle, connect the batteries and run the "assist" vehicle at 2000 RPM for at least 5 minutes to get a minimum charge into the defective battery. Then,.....try to start it.

Check ALL of the battery clamps and cables, front & rear, and make sure they are spotlessly clean and corrosion-free. It takes very little resistance to stop 12 volts from making a good connection.

If all of the battery cabling is perfect, then I'd see about the ignition switch, starter solenoid, and wiring.

After that, its time to see about the immobilizer relay.

Hope this helps a little,

Bokonon

Thanks for the help Steve, I really appreciate it.

I bought a battery charger and charged it overnight, which completed successfully. Tried starting her. No dice, same results.

Took the battery out and got it tested. Battery is fine. Hooked it back up and tried starting her again and still no luck.

Well at least I know the battery is OK.
-terry

jrgordonsenior

Terry,

A old trick for stuck starters/solenoids is to put the car in gear and rock the bleep out of it with the e-braked released. If you can reach the starter, you can also tap it with a hammer. If it's stuck, these may sometimes release the starter. Worth a shot...
JRG