Father of 3

I have a dilema on top of a dilema. I am almost surely going to take viperbob up on his offer on the bilstein HDs among other things. My car currently has Eibach springs, installed by Andial by the original owner, and stock shocks which are shot. I am seriously contemplating replacing both the shocks and coils given that VBs price of $300 for M030 is tempting. Does this make sense? I don't know too much about the Eibach coils other than I know Viken has made reference in the past that they were of lower quality than other options. I do like the ride height with the Eibachs BTW. Why would Andial use an inferior product?

What I like about the M030 is the factory nature of them, that others seem to be very happy with them, and swap cost shouldn't be too high. Am I crazy? Would it be better to keep the $300 (less if I could sell my coils) or spend it on the carbon fiber strut brace that VB is offering? TIA

I still haven't decided if VB is santa or satan. Temptation, temptation...

TheOtherEric

Not to pick nits, but a spring is a spring for the most part. Ever hear of springs breaking? Me neither (except corvettes with their plastic springs...). Now, whether that spring rate is a good match for the damper, that's the big question.

The reason you should consider M030 is not cuz they are "factory", it's that they are stiffer and well suited for the HD (heavy duty) shocks. OTOH, your ride will be raised about 0.75" or so from where you are now, IIRC.

Father of 3

You are right, that is the ultimate question. Believe me, if I can justify keeping my springs and the $300 or so, I will do so. It's just that installation, alignment, corner balance is not cheap and incremental cost of new M030 is peanuts by comparison. I want to make sure I get it right the first time. Is the suspension well matched and setup for the car. Anyone with this setup that would like to share their experience?

I've already received e-mails and PMs tempting me over to PSS9s, as if I needed more temptation...

kdurg

Father of 3...

Are the Eibachs a progressive or linear rated spring ? There are differences in springs both in ride height and feel.

The ROW M030 spring is progressive rated which means it will get stiffer as the car takes on more load in the corners...yet still offer smooth all around driving.

I've never used Eibachs nor do I know much about them. I, too, value a factory product and don't think you could go wrong with ROW springs for all around spirited street driving.

I have seen pics of 993's with Eibachs vs. ROW and the Eibachs do sit much lower.

Good Luck !!!

paradisenb

Are you planning on taking JRGs springs?

Father of 3

I haven't heard back though I'm told there are usually some M030 springs sitting in rennlisters garages that have upgraded to PSS9s.

I just got off the phone with Andial. The coils are progressive and are apparently designated for the tt, though they use them in all 993s. They said the coils for the NA cars they used from Eibach sagged over time whereas these do not.

Edward

I believe the Eibachs' spring rate is lower (softer) than the RoW M030 (can someone confirm?). But whatever the actual spring rate of the Eibachs, suffice it to say they are stiffer than the OE regulars, which means that the HD's valving should be fine. I understand the desire not to pinch pennies now since you're "in there" doing the work anyway. But if you're ok with the ride compliance now, and if you're not interested in tracking the car seriously, I think the Eibach spring would work just fine. Even more, with the fresh HDs, you'll probably really enjoy how well the car handles as your car with worn shocks probably feels loose or floaty at speed now with the worn shocks (mine felt lousy before the swap). If I were you, I'd take that savings and find a set of RoW M030 swaybars (22mm/21mm). In conjunction with your HDs, I think you'll be really pleased with the results.

Edward

paradisenb

Spring Rates. Posted By DJF1. Danny

Since there seems to be a lot of confusion and personal opinions on harsness I believe we should let the data speak for themselves (in pounds) :

1. Standard suspension : 150-160 Front, 225-250Rear ( ROW VS US is ROW= Progressive springs, US= Linear springs)

2. ROW M030 suspension: 160 -165 Front, Rear 280- 285 ( Progressive Springs)

3. Pss-9 Suspension: 225-250(Tender Spring) Front , 400-650(tender spring) Rear

4. H&R coilover suspension: 295 Front, 360 Rear

5. Sport H&R Coilover suspension: 310-350 Front, 385- 435 Rear

6. Bilstein "Supercup" suspension ( linear springs) : 350Front - 500Rear

Sways: ( From VIKEN's earlier post)

Carrera / Carrera 4:

USA Front: 20 mm
USA Rear: 17 mm
ROW Front: 21 mm
ROW Rear: 18 mm

USA M030 Front: 22 mm
USA M030 Rear: 20 mm
ROW M030 Front: 22 mm
ROW M030 Rear: 20 mm

Carrera S / Carrera 4S:

USA Front: 20 mm
USA Rear: 17 mm
ROW Front: 20 mm
ROW Rear: 18 mm

USA M030 Front: 22 mm
USA M030 Rear: 18 mm
ROW M030 Front: 22 mm
ROW M030 Rear: 20 mm

Turbo:

USA Front: 22 mm
USA Rear: 19 mm
ROW Front: 22 mm
ROW Rear: 21 mm

So I think its pretty clear of the choices available out there ...
__________________

chris walrod

Eibach springs present the lowest ride height of the three popular (OE diameter) springs, being Eibach, H&R and the ROW M030.

Although very subjective, Eibach offered the harshest(sp?) ride vs. the other two.

Only the front ROW M030 springs are progressive, which, one would think this is Porsche's effort at maintaining a reasonable ride with higher spring rates during 'normal' driving.

Myself? I would lean towards the factory spring as, I'm sure, Porsches spring development budget was more than that of Eibachs.

Now only if Porsche tested damper longevity

mschafer71

Per Blane at Eibach Tech Support: Specs for Pro-Kit springs

7208.104 for 95-98 993 NB: Front 89-177 Rear 171-268
Lowers 1.3 Front and 1.0 Rear

7209.104 for 96-98 993 C4S and Turbo: Front 120-200 Rear 211-400
Lowers 1.5 Front and 1.5 Rear



H&R Performance Springs 95-98 993 NB: F 230-265 R 275-300

96-98 993 Turbo: F 230-265 R 280-320

Father of 3

Thanks for the info. I was looking for the roll bar diameter list that Viken posted before. You beat me to it. Thanks.

Father of 3

Just noticed your sig. What area is considered upcountry Maui?

Edward

Good info on the actual spring rates

Since the Eibach seems to fall somewhere in the area of the standard OE and the M030 (as I kinda said ), I think they should work just fine with the HDs. But obviously, perceived "harshness" is very subjective and a discussion that should be taken into consideration along with dampers. Which is why I mentioned that IF Fof3 is ok with the ride compliance (and ride height, too) of his current Eibachs, he should be even more pleased when coupled with a good set of shocks. As it stands now, he is oversprung/underdamped which can feel "harsh" over road ripples/irregularities, especially at slow/moderate speeds, yet feel floaty as speeds increase. Will the RoW M030 springs be "better" than the Eibachs? Well that brings us back to the subjective nature of the discussion. Ain't suspensions fun!

Edward

Father of 3

As of now, I'm leaning towards you suggestion Edward, to keep the eibach springs and get the upgraded sways. Sounds like I might need the extra threaded HDs from Gert, unless VB can come through, given my understanding of past posts.

max911

Chris, I would say that the H&R springs are lower than Eibachs. (about 1/4 to 1/2 inch in my estimation)
I would also say that the Eibach springs are the softest of the three springs (Eibach, H&R, M030)
please note: These height observations done with an uncalibrated tape measure and recentley calibrated (optometrist) eyeballs. Ride stiffness observations -totally 'seat of the pants' .. with uncalibrated seat.
I found the Eibach springs to be no stiffer than the standard stock springs when I did the replacement. If I were to track the car at all, Eibach would be the last choice IMO.
After purchasing and installing the springs almost two years ago, I heard about the tendency for Eibachs to sag. I don't know if there was a change to the spring's manufacturing specs at some point in time, but so far, my car sits just as it did when I picked it up from the shop. (Johnson's Alignment)

Pick the spring that you want to use, and go with that choice; you can always sell the used Eibach springs for $100- $150 on ebay.

If you want a ride in my car with Bilstein HDs and Eibachs, send me a PM.
Warning- my car has RS adjustable sway bars.... so you may want to have those too

max