Houston Dealerships - Should I be concerned?
12-10-2001, 06:29 AM
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Track Day
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Houston Dealerships - Should I be concerned?
I've been posting recently about MY dream car, which is a 1983 911 SC. However, this post pertains to my father's dream car, which is a 1997 993 C2S. I've been helping me locate a nice one, and I've found a dealer, but I am concerned. Of course, I will get a PPI done before purchase.
Should I be careful dealing with Houston dealerships? I am considering a purchase from a dealership (wholesaler) called "Expo Motorcars"; they sell many luxury/sports cars on eBay and seem to have a decent reputation and rating. Anybody have experience with them?
In addition, should I be wary of Houston dealerships in general? After all, there was massive flooding over there during the summer, and I am worried about buying a car with flood damage. In addition, I really don't think a "clean title and history" from carfax.com proves that the car did not suffer any flood damage.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Should I be careful dealing with Houston dealerships? I am considering a purchase from a dealership (wholesaler) called "Expo Motorcars"; they sell many luxury/sports cars on eBay and seem to have a decent reputation and rating. Anybody have experience with them?
In addition, should I be wary of Houston dealerships in general? After all, there was massive flooding over there during the summer, and I am worried about buying a car with flood damage. In addition, I really don't think a "clean title and history" from carfax.com proves that the car did not suffer any flood damage.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
12-10-2001, 12:24 PM
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I had a big problem with Ray Joseph of RPM Sports Cars who is located in Houston. I found him to be a liar and a crook. You would do well to stay away from him.
I also had Don McGill Porsche of Houston do the PPI in which they gave the car thumbs up. Latter they said that they do not inspect the body of the car or the paint work in their PPI. The car turned out to have had some damage and paint work.
Carfax is only one piece of information that should be looked at during you due diligence. I saw a Porsche in California with a clean bill of health from Carfax. I traced the ownership by making a few phone calls and that led me to a very forthright wrecking yard in Oregon who deals only in wrecked vehicles.
Listen to your gut and follow all leads; and be prepared to walk. Do not fall in love with a car.
Good hunting.
I also had Don McGill Porsche of Houston do the PPI in which they gave the car thumbs up. Latter they said that they do not inspect the body of the car or the paint work in their PPI. The car turned out to have had some damage and paint work.
Carfax is only one piece of information that should be looked at during you due diligence. I saw a Porsche in California with a clean bill of health from Carfax. I traced the ownership by making a few phone calls and that led me to a very forthright wrecking yard in Oregon who deals only in wrecked vehicles.
Listen to your gut and follow all leads; and be prepared to walk. Do not fall in love with a car.
Good hunting.
12-10-2001, 02:16 PM
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Another good source for a PPI is Viking Sjovall - 281/498-1001. He's the event chair for the local PCA region's track events, as well as running a Porsche & Jap import shop.
12-10-2001, 02:58 PM
#6
I purchased my car from Ray Joseph at RPM Sports Cars. My experience with Ray was very good. He took dozens of digital photos at my request, was completely accomodating and helped me coordinate the PPI.
I had the PPI performed at Don McGill. Before they looked at my car or took my money they informed me they couldn't/wouldn't make judgement regarding any crash damage or repair. Something was said about case law in Texas and other dealerships that had passed vehicles off as "clean" only to be sued later because they failed to identify crash damage.
Fortunately, Don McGill Porsche not only performed the PPI but had some service history for my car.
Overall, I found my experience with Ray Joseph, RPM Sports Cars (www.rpmsportscars.com) and Don McGill to be very good. I'm not discounting Jim's opinion, only offering mine.
MC
I had the PPI performed at Don McGill. Before they looked at my car or took my money they informed me they couldn't/wouldn't make judgement regarding any crash damage or repair. Something was said about case law in Texas and other dealerships that had passed vehicles off as "clean" only to be sued later because they failed to identify crash damage.
Fortunately, Don McGill Porsche not only performed the PPI but had some service history for my car.
Overall, I found my experience with Ray Joseph, RPM Sports Cars (www.rpmsportscars.com) and Don McGill to be very good. I'm not discounting Jim's opinion, only offering mine.
MC
12-10-2001, 05:03 PM
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Before I purchased my 993 I had a 968 which was getting serviced at Momentum.
Momentum actually had saved me a few bucks by offering sound advise on a headlight motor which a dealer in Miami wanted to change and they just fixed it cheaply...
But lately I had tried to schedule appointments with them for three days and noone would return my call!!!! Talking about service ha?
So I went to Advantage Porsche (ex Don McGill) and they treated me fairly.
I met Hans the German Porsche Master Tech they employ who seem to know our cars inside and out and he too offered money saving advises on the service of my 993...He seemed frank and honest without pushing me to change stuff on the car...He even drove my car with me and offered peace of mind regarding my gear changing...
So I'm pretty pleased, I have to use Porsche dealers because of the extended warranty on my car so when I go there I always ask for Hans to service my car! Oh and something refreshing..they do not really frown when they have my baby on the jacks and I snoop around her looking under the car or observing them performing service...
Finally the support the LSRPCA chapter and you get a nice discount for being a member!
Momentum actually had saved me a few bucks by offering sound advise on a headlight motor which a dealer in Miami wanted to change and they just fixed it cheaply...
But lately I had tried to schedule appointments with them for three days and noone would return my call!!!! Talking about service ha?
So I went to Advantage Porsche (ex Don McGill) and they treated me fairly.
I met Hans the German Porsche Master Tech they employ who seem to know our cars inside and out and he too offered money saving advises on the service of my 993...He seemed frank and honest without pushing me to change stuff on the car...He even drove my car with me and offered peace of mind regarding my gear changing...
So I'm pretty pleased, I have to use Porsche dealers because of the extended warranty on my car so when I go there I always ask for Hans to service my car! Oh and something refreshing..they do not really frown when they have my baby on the jacks and I snoop around her looking under the car or observing them performing service...
Finally the support the LSRPCA chapter and you get a nice discount for being a member!
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12-10-2001, 07:31 PM
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I purchased my car from Doug Haas at Haas Imports off Hwy 59. He was selling it on consignment for a customer. The dealership specializes in used cars like Bentley, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, etc.
I was a bit skeptical and nervous about the transaction environment, but really wanted the car (silver/red, 6000 miles, good paper trail, full Turbo S interior), so I went for it. I've put 8,000 miles on the car in 13 months, and haven't found any obvious problems yet (fingers crossed), so it seems to have worked out OK on my end.
Also used Don McGill for the PPI. Their examination was rather cursory, and I agree with Jim's recommendation that you absolutely need a separate PPI by a ethical body shop. I painted two cars as a teenager, and this experience helped me spot undisclosed body and paint work on a 1996 993TT being sold by Northland in Cincinatti as a cherry. I truly believe that an authorized dealership can be just as shaky as an independent establishment, so be careful out there.
I was a bit skeptical and nervous about the transaction environment, but really wanted the car (silver/red, 6000 miles, good paper trail, full Turbo S interior), so I went for it. I've put 8,000 miles on the car in 13 months, and haven't found any obvious problems yet (fingers crossed), so it seems to have worked out OK on my end.
Also used Don McGill for the PPI. Their examination was rather cursory, and I agree with Jim's recommendation that you absolutely need a separate PPI by a ethical body shop. I painted two cars as a teenager, and this experience helped me spot undisclosed body and paint work on a 1996 993TT being sold by Northland in Cincinatti as a cherry. I truly believe that an authorized dealership can be just as shaky as an independent establishment, so be careful out there.
12-10-2001, 07:40 PM
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FWIW, ALL my cars I've bought have been through Ray Joseph at RPM Sports Cars - .http://www.rpmsportscars.com. Ray has a great selection of cars to choose from, and you'll find that he is a professional businessman.
No affiliation, just my experiences.
-Matt
No affiliation, just my experiences.
-Matt
12-10-2001, 08:03 PM
#11
Drifting
I have noticed that RPM has very low mileage cars....but he charges a fortune compared to everyone else.
I spoke with ray and he claims that all the cars belonged to non smokers etc,
I would get a car from RPM if and only if I was willing to pay a high premium on an old car with 2-5k miles and such..
He seems like the top of guy you might want to buy a mercedes gull wing from, or a 959. He probably pays top dollar for the cars he stocks, but he charges a premium on top of it.
I spoke with ray and he claims that all the cars belonged to non smokers etc,
I would get a car from RPM if and only if I was willing to pay a high premium on an old car with 2-5k miles and such..
He seems like the top of guy you might want to buy a mercedes gull wing from, or a 959. He probably pays top dollar for the cars he stocks, but he charges a premium on top of it.
12-10-2001, 08:09 PM
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Anyone else notice that RPM has dropped the prices on most of their vehicles. The economy must really be tough if even Mr. Joseph has reduced his prices.
12-10-2001, 08:20 PM
#13
Drifting
I've been looking at RPM for a couple weeks and I haven't noticed any drop off in prices.
I must say his cars are beautifully clean..
But those prices still seem real high to me.
The cars aren't even certified and no warranty.
Those cars are Garage Queens. But still, really pricey!!
I must say his cars are beautifully clean..
But those prices still seem real high to me.
The cars aren't even certified and no warranty.
Those cars are Garage Queens. But still, really pricey!!
12-10-2001, 08:55 PM
#14
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Run away, run away!
Seriously though, I'm sure there's some fine upstanding citizens in the P-car business in Houston, I just never came across any of them when I did my initial searching on E-Bay earlier this year. There's some good advice on the posts here, to which I'd add my own experience: If you can't see it , touch it or feel it yourself... don't get trapped by the dream.
Search the archives for some previous hints on sources in the Bay Area or e-mail me. m_drury@pacbell.net
Seriously though, I'm sure there's some fine upstanding citizens in the P-car business in Houston, I just never came across any of them when I did my initial searching on E-Bay earlier this year. There's some good advice on the posts here, to which I'd add my own experience: If you can't see it , touch it or feel it yourself... don't get trapped by the dream.
Search the archives for some previous hints on sources in the Bay Area or e-mail me. m_drury@pacbell.net
12-10-2001, 09:43 PM
#15
A few more comments regarding RPM Sports Cars and Ray Joseph.
I live in San Jose, CA. I looked at several hundred cars on the Internet and finally settled on a 98' Cab with 5800 miles on it. It was in the RPM Sports Cars inventory.
I worked over the phone with Ray Joseph for nearly a month. He responded professionally to every question and concern. At my request he contacted the previous owner (P.O.) and asked him if he would mind talking to me. I was very gratified to hear from the P.O. a few days later. He gave me all the info I needed including a very nice history of the car.
Ray had a huge opportunity to screw me because I never even flew to Houston to see the car or drive it, nor did I ever meet him in person. I asked him to fax me a copy of the title - he did.
After reviewing dozens of digital photos that taken at my request, and obtaining the PPI from Don McGill, I bought the car.
Ray offered to arrange shipping but I had already taken care of it. He worked with my shipper (D.A.S.) to release the car and even followed up to ensure it arrived in California safely. When the car arrived I inspected every centimeter of it. It was showroom original, spotless inside and out. My experience with Ray was very professional and 100% satisfactory. He told me RPM Sports Cars specifically focuses on very low mileage cars in nearly perfect condition. I found that to be the case with my purchase.
MC
I live in San Jose, CA. I looked at several hundred cars on the Internet and finally settled on a 98' Cab with 5800 miles on it. It was in the RPM Sports Cars inventory.
I worked over the phone with Ray Joseph for nearly a month. He responded professionally to every question and concern. At my request he contacted the previous owner (P.O.) and asked him if he would mind talking to me. I was very gratified to hear from the P.O. a few days later. He gave me all the info I needed including a very nice history of the car.
Ray had a huge opportunity to screw me because I never even flew to Houston to see the car or drive it, nor did I ever meet him in person. I asked him to fax me a copy of the title - he did.
After reviewing dozens of digital photos that taken at my request, and obtaining the PPI from Don McGill, I bought the car.
Ray offered to arrange shipping but I had already taken care of it. He worked with my shipper (D.A.S.) to release the car and even followed up to ensure it arrived in California safely. When the car arrived I inspected every centimeter of it. It was showroom original, spotless inside and out. My experience with Ray was very professional and 100% satisfactory. He told me RPM Sports Cars specifically focuses on very low mileage cars in nearly perfect condition. I found that to be the case with my purchase.
MC