OT: Our E46 M3 engine is being replaced
08-23-2002, 11:04 PM
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OT: Our E46 M3 engine is being replaced
I just forwarded the following information to a gentleman named Jason who has been tabulating the increasing number of BMW E46 M3 engine failures.
Between the early engine failure and my growing disatisfaction with SMG (clunky and slow around town, though wonderful under full acceleration), I am seriously considering selling the thing.
BMW may have gotten in over their heads on this car. It appears that their engineering talent and/or production line capabilities were not up to the task.
Thank goodness for Porsche engineering. Two years of revving my 993TT to redline on almost every shift and never a whimper.
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We purchased the car new in 1/02 after placing our deposit in 9/00. The break-in instructions were followed religiously, and the car has never seen track time. It is my wife's daily transportation in our small Midwestern town, and therefore primarily encounters city traffic with the occasional highway road trip.
It had performed flawlessly until about 2 weeks ago (8,000 miles on the odometer), when an increasingly loud pinging / tapping sound (almost like that encountered when using low octane fuel) was noticed, obviously coming from the engine. It was most pronounced at between 2,000 and 5,000 rpm on acceleration.
Then engine did not actually fail, because we intervened and immediately had the car evaluated by Don Jacobs BMW, who has diagnosed a "spun connecting rod bearing". They plan to replace the engine under warranty.
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For those who are interested, here is an <a href="http://www.peebles34.freeserve.co.uk/Pages/Engine%20Health%20Check/Noise%20Diagnosis/Internal%20Engine%20Noises.htm" target="_blank">interesting summary of connecting rod knock</a>
Between the early engine failure and my growing disatisfaction with SMG (clunky and slow around town, though wonderful under full acceleration), I am seriously considering selling the thing.
BMW may have gotten in over their heads on this car. It appears that their engineering talent and/or production line capabilities were not up to the task.
Thank goodness for Porsche engineering. Two years of revving my 993TT to redline on almost every shift and never a whimper.
-------------------------------------------------
We purchased the car new in 1/02 after placing our deposit in 9/00. The break-in instructions were followed religiously, and the car has never seen track time. It is my wife's daily transportation in our small Midwestern town, and therefore primarily encounters city traffic with the occasional highway road trip.
It had performed flawlessly until about 2 weeks ago (8,000 miles on the odometer), when an increasingly loud pinging / tapping sound (almost like that encountered when using low octane fuel) was noticed, obviously coming from the engine. It was most pronounced at between 2,000 and 5,000 rpm on acceleration.
Then engine did not actually fail, because we intervened and immediately had the car evaluated by Don Jacobs BMW, who has diagnosed a "spun connecting rod bearing". They plan to replace the engine under warranty.
----------------------------------
For those who are interested, here is an <a href="http://www.peebles34.freeserve.co.uk/Pages/Engine%20Health%20Check/Noise%20Diagnosis/Internal%20Engine%20Noises.htm" target="_blank">interesting summary of connecting rod knock</a>
08-23-2002, 11:22 PM
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Wow... at 8000 miles! That is pretty horrible,,,
There were reports in Europe of early previous generation M3's overheating especially in the warm countries in the summer. What a contrast to the low tech M3's they brought over here back then as my daily driver M3 has been proven bullet proof.
I guess there is no substitute for the tried and tested air/oil cooled flat 6. They did not win all these LeMans victories for nothing!
Good luck Anir!
There were reports in Europe of early previous generation M3's overheating especially in the warm countries in the summer. What a contrast to the low tech M3's they brought over here back then as my daily driver M3 has been proven bullet proof.
I guess there is no substitute for the tried and tested air/oil cooled flat 6. They did not win all these LeMans victories for nothing!
Good luck Anir!
08-24-2002, 12:32 AM
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Anir:
Chris Brown here. I also have a 02 SMG with 8500 miles. So far so good but I am axious to get rid of it because its boring unless driven at damn near 100%.
I am thinking of a 94 C2T, or maybe a 993TT to compliment the RSR.
See you
Chris
Chris Brown here. I also have a 02 SMG with 8500 miles. So far so good but I am axious to get rid of it because its boring unless driven at damn near 100%.
I am thinking of a 94 C2T, or maybe a 993TT to compliment the RSR.
See you
Chris
08-24-2002, 01:36 AM
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Anir,
Sorry to hear that. I just sold my '02 6-speed this past Thursday night with 10,500 miles on the ticker. Got almost what I wanted out of it, but it was a quick, cash buyer, so money walks.....
Anyway, now I got cash for my 993 upgrades
Good luck!
Sorry to hear that. I just sold my '02 6-speed this past Thursday night with 10,500 miles on the ticker. Got almost what I wanted out of it, but it was a quick, cash buyer, so money walks.....
Anyway, now I got cash for my 993 upgrades
Good luck!
08-24-2002, 02:54 AM
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Anir:
Sorry to hear about the engine failure.
There seems to be a real problem with October thru December '01 build cars. Rather than trying to sell the car after it's repaired, see if you can get BMW to buy it back now. I've heard of a few people having had some success in that regard.
Good luck!
Sorry to hear about the engine failure.
There seems to be a real problem with October thru December '01 build cars. Rather than trying to sell the car after it's repaired, see if you can get BMW to buy it back now. I've heard of a few people having had some success in that regard.
Good luck!
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08-24-2002, 12:27 PM
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Thanks for all the kind words. It's funny, but I'm really not that upset about it. Somehow, I never developed an emotional attachment to the m3, like I have with the 993TT. The M3 is a capable car, but a bit sterile and wooden in its interaction with the driver. Plus, I've always had a sneaking suspicion that there might be an quality control issue. If you remember, they delayed the introduction of the first cars due to some sort of problem with achieving the necessary production line tolerances. Then, there were the cars breaking down at the track. Warped rotors, blown engines, ...
In the past three years, I've experienced quality issues with both a 2000 Mercedes S500 and now the M3. Leaves a bit of a black mark on that concept of traditional bulletproof German engineering. With the M3, I understand that the engine was pushed to the absolute limit of its original design, but the Mercedes issue was entirely with the choice of interior trim materials.
The whole affair makes me love my 993TT even more.
Come to think of it, I did let Greg and Jerry drive it on the way to Cincinnati during the break-in period. Hmmm, I wonder....
In the past three years, I've experienced quality issues with both a 2000 Mercedes S500 and now the M3. Leaves a bit of a black mark on that concept of traditional bulletproof German engineering. With the M3, I understand that the engine was pushed to the absolute limit of its original design, but the Mercedes issue was entirely with the choice of interior trim materials.
The whole affair makes me love my 993TT even more.
Come to think of it, I did let Greg and Jerry drive it on the way to Cincinnati during the break-in period. Hmmm, I wonder....
08-24-2002, 02:00 PM
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FWIW,
I had an E36 M3 (1998) and that car was the most unreliable vehicle I've ever owned. It was in the shop over 23 days for the 2 1/2 years I had it (and BMW does not understand the term "customer service").
It was so bad that I had to take legal action against BMW because I couldn't get anyone to even address the problems I was having even though the car was under warranty.
Although the car's performance was great (I really liked that car), the reliability and BMW's poor service have convinced me to look elsewhere when buying a german car (thus my 993)!
I had an E36 M3 (1998) and that car was the most unreliable vehicle I've ever owned. It was in the shop over 23 days for the 2 1/2 years I had it (and BMW does not understand the term "customer service").
It was so bad that I had to take legal action against BMW because I couldn't get anyone to even address the problems I was having even though the car was under warranty.
Although the car's performance was great (I really liked that car), the reliability and BMW's poor service have convinced me to look elsewhere when buying a german car (thus my 993)!
08-24-2002, 02:20 PM
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Thanks for sharing this with us, Anir. I've been keenly interested in the E46 M3 since its introduction, less so as I keep hearing of the serious engine issues.
When the E46 was introduced, the second thought I had--after almost falling out of my chair when I read how much extra hp (some 40%!) they had gotten out of the engine--was could this be done reliably (almost too good to be true)? I'm sure others (including yourself) have thought the same. But, after a bit of reflection, I figured a respected company like BMW wouldn't put a product on the market that hadn't been thoroughly tested. We're not surprised when some aftermarket tuner designs a product that fails left and right, but we don't expect the same from a big company like BMW. Anyway, I never had to thoroughly satisfy myself that the new M engine would be reliable, as I've never gotten seriously close to purchasing an E46.
As we all know, Porsche has had its own moments of shame when it comes to premature/expensive component failure. The 2.7L engine, small percentage of early 3.6L heads leaked oil, Freudenberg DMF and the distributor vent belt, just to name a few. Still, these issues don't seem to have been quite as severe as the E46 M engine. The only one that even comes close is the 2.7L engine.
I think things will really start to get ugly when/if these engines fail while out of warranty. Will BMW stand behind their product, if the car was bought used from a private party & serviced at an independent? I wonder how much these engines are new?
As you probably have read before, my 3.6L engine also spun a rod bearing, at 100k miles. Of course, 100k miles is a far cry from 8k miles. Also, my failure is really an anomaly (and horribly bad luck on my part). You'll be hard-pressed to find another 3.6L 911 engine that's experienced a spun rod bearing.
I appreciate your making this (important to potential future decision) post on the 993 board. Don't think I would have ever found it on the general board.
When the E46 was introduced, the second thought I had--after almost falling out of my chair when I read how much extra hp (some 40%!) they had gotten out of the engine--was could this be done reliably (almost too good to be true)? I'm sure others (including yourself) have thought the same. But, after a bit of reflection, I figured a respected company like BMW wouldn't put a product on the market that hadn't been thoroughly tested. We're not surprised when some aftermarket tuner designs a product that fails left and right, but we don't expect the same from a big company like BMW. Anyway, I never had to thoroughly satisfy myself that the new M engine would be reliable, as I've never gotten seriously close to purchasing an E46.
As we all know, Porsche has had its own moments of shame when it comes to premature/expensive component failure. The 2.7L engine, small percentage of early 3.6L heads leaked oil, Freudenberg DMF and the distributor vent belt, just to name a few. Still, these issues don't seem to have been quite as severe as the E46 M engine. The only one that even comes close is the 2.7L engine.
I think things will really start to get ugly when/if these engines fail while out of warranty. Will BMW stand behind their product, if the car was bought used from a private party & serviced at an independent? I wonder how much these engines are new?
As you probably have read before, my 3.6L engine also spun a rod bearing, at 100k miles. Of course, 100k miles is a far cry from 8k miles. Also, my failure is really an anomaly (and horribly bad luck on my part). You'll be hard-pressed to find another 3.6L 911 engine that's experienced a spun rod bearing.
I appreciate your making this (important to potential future decision) post on the 993 board. Don't think I would have ever found it on the general board.
08-24-2002, 03:18 PM
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Anir,
Porsche wins the lion share of endurance races 'cause they don't break (often). See what you get for buyin' a BMW (grief!) Lucky U heard the rod a knock'in befor it found it's way outside the block.
Peter H
Porsche wins the lion share of endurance races 'cause they don't break (often). See what you get for buyin' a BMW (grief!) Lucky U heard the rod a knock'in befor it found it's way outside the block.
Peter H
08-24-2002, 06:56 PM
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Chuck,
Sorry and surprised to hear you had a problem with an E36 M3. I had a '99 and it was an incredible car. So much so in fact that I might find a high mile example to run as a track/driver car. I also have several friends with E36 M3s and none have ever had any serious problems except for maybe warped rotors
Sorry and surprised to hear you had a problem with an E36 M3. I had a '99 and it was an incredible car. So much so in fact that I might find a high mile example to run as a track/driver car. I also have several friends with E36 M3s and none have ever had any serious problems except for maybe warped rotors
08-24-2002, 07:24 PM
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For anyone interested in M3 engine/rod bearing failures, check out this site: <a href="http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm" target="_blank">M3 Engine Failure Archive</a>
08-24-2002, 08:54 PM
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Chuck,
I am sorry to hear about your E36 M3 problems. Like Chris and several friends of mine locally, I enjoyed the E36 M3 and never had even a hint of a problem. I put 40k miles on it in the 3 years I had it without incident.
You are the first person that I have heard tell a horror story about these cars- but the statistics do not provide much solice when you are the one in a thousand that has a problem.
Steve
'97 993tt
I am sorry to hear about your E36 M3 problems. Like Chris and several friends of mine locally, I enjoyed the E36 M3 and never had even a hint of a problem. I put 40k miles on it in the 3 years I had it without incident.
You are the first person that I have heard tell a horror story about these cars- but the statistics do not provide much solice when you are the one in a thousand that has a problem.
Steve
'97 993tt