pedsurg

Apologies if this has been posted but what does the board think of Joel Reiser's answer/remarks regarding reliability issues with the 993 engines (Oct Pano page 80)? Namely OBD II failures at 30 K miles and worn our exhaust guides at 10-20 K miles. His rec's for purchase (best to worse): 996 or turbo (in warranty), GT@/GT3 (in warranty), any Certified Pre-Owned Porsche, 997, 964/993 for someone who can rebuild their own engine, 964/993 for one who can afford an engine rebuild. Are valve guides really thus much of a problem?

Jack

John D.

Ummm... Pano?? PCA????

And the order of the "preferences" would be "new" Porsches? Have no idea why that would be..?? For example, I'm not sure what the sold base of 997s has gone for any significant miles to suggest it should be "recommended" based on purchases/reliability - but what do I know? I mean - it is Pano, right?

I dunno - my '95 has 125K+ miles and the valve guides are just fine - are they are at over 10 times their expected life, according to that article.???... I dunno how that could be - but they are...??? And my engine sure isn't "coddled".

Not a flame - just my opinion based on my first hand experience.....

pedsurg

Appreciate the opinion. I personally have not heard of sig issues with said valve guides on this board or elsewhere (I don't really know what a guide valve is). I must admit to being surprised that the technical board of PCA would, in its fashion, rec against a 993 purchase. Congrats on the 125K!!

Jack

John D.

Well - valve guides on Porsche engines has never been a strong suit. As background, the "guides" run through the heads, and hold the length of the valves in place. When they "wear", you can see many symptoms - such high oil consumption, smoke on deceleration, etc. It's been a common problem on all 6- engines, from 64+ (911) through to the latest - which again, raises a question as to why this "problem" in Pano was pointed at the 993, rather then, for example - the 3.2? In fact, my 3.2 ran 120K miles without a problem, but when I did a rebuild (for another reason), replaced the guides as a matter of course. As well, our 964 C4 with 90K miles does not suffer this problem, either - and according to that Pano article, shouldn't be running as well as it is, in regards to the guides? And, it's first year production of the 964, which if I believe everything I read - should be even worse for other reasons?

For that - are there problems with some 993 higher mileage engines (and other production years)? Of course! But - to state 10K miles for 993 as expected valve guide wear - is simply silly, IMHO..... As for the "996" being "recommended", pop over to the 996 Forum and do a search on RMS. But - it's a "recommended" buy? Hmmm..?????

Again - it comes as no surprise to me - in my opinion - that only newer Porsches would be recommended by both Pano/PCA. However - to infer that a 997 won't have similiar issues as the past 40 year production Porsches is somewhat premature, as there aren't many that have made "higher" mileage to be statistically significant...???

pedsurg

Amen! My former RMS challenged is the chief reason I own the 993.

Speedraser

There are MANY 993s with high mileages (100K+) that seem to be doing fine on their original guides. There was a recent article in 911 & Porsche World about two 993s, each with about 175K miles, and going strong -- no valve guide problems, and neither had any engine work. Some 993s are apparently wearing out their guides prematurely, but MANY are not.

My car, at 56K miles, uses a quart of oil in about 3500 miles, so I have to think my guides are holding up well so far.

Luis A.

I see black helicopters and a man opening and closing an umbrella on a grassy knoll...

JasonF

Of all the cars I've owned, my 993 has been the most reliable and hardy. I have a 997 on order, and have decided to lease as opposed to buy it. That Pano 'article' assumed that Porsche has addressed the RMS issue for the 997, but I'm not taking any chances. My 997 will be under full warranty during the lease term, and if it surpasses my expectations regarding reliability, maybe I'll buy it out.

And as JD pointed out, Pano/PCA would be more likely to favor new production models. I like Pano, but that magazine (along with Excellence) is not known for hard-hitting journalism. On the other hand, BMWCCA's magazine, Roundel, is known to be critical of BMWs when warranted. Not an issue goes by that they don't (rightfully) trash i-drive and other BMW missteps.

pedsurg

I'm glad my 996 was leased and I agree that is the only way I'd get the 997. Re the 993, on the other hand, I'd like to match John's 125K
Jack

pedsurg

Another note: If our cars are not consuming excessive oil at 50 -75 K miles, is it safe to assume the valve guides are OK. In other words, if there is a problem does it usually show up between 25 and 50 K miles?
Jack

AlexO

With all due respect to Mr. Joel Reiser, at least I can re-build 964 block top or whole, in 996, or so I have heard, Porsche has to replace the whole engine, same applies to transmission. Would you rather have a disposable engine, thank you, but no, thank you! 10 years and 50,000 miles and I would challenge Joel Reiser to find a drop of oil around my engine or a valve play.
Alex

914und993

I suspect this hullaballoo about the valve guides stems (no pun!) from the secondary air injection ports and CEL issue. Were it not for this lovely OBDII feature, I doubt that 993 valveguides would get any more attention than any other year. The standard factory response to the CEL for SAI is "you need a valve job".

While Pano is rarely critical of Porsche, I don't think Reiser's opinions on car desireability are dictated by the financial needs of Porsche or PCNA. Having some sort of warranty available seems to be the major strong point of the models recommended over the 993.

Chip

pedsurg

Yep.Even though he rec's a 996 purchase over the 993 he does add the proviso that the 996 still be under warrany.
Jack

Chaos

My 95 burns no oil unless tracked. I hpor it keeps it up. With the prposed PCA rule change allowing lighter weight fo 95 993's I think we will see more as race cars oil consumption is crucial to racers.

viperbob

That is what I have heard from numerous Porsche techs. That is what they are taught. The reasoning is that there is excessive oil from the valve guides that is causing the residue issue in the exhaust port and clogging up the SAI hole. So they feel they are going to the root cause.

The issue I have is that the valves may be leaking slightly, but due to 1) never using techron or 2) the SAI system in not even operating initially at startup anymore the SAI hole can get clogged and you get a CEL. Some of the valve jobs I would say are a little premature. Before I would go that far if I had the CEL, I would remove the lower valve cover (not too hard on a NA car), and test the movement of the valve in the guide..... If it is outside of specs then yes a valve job is warranted. But if there is very little side to side play, then some of the other remedies for removing the clogging (like the nice write up here recently on replacing the check valve and running some cleaner through the system) would be my next steps.... A lot cheaper that way.