Temple

I've checked the archives but can't find any discussion of 30K mile service recommendations.

I'm about to have mine performed and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations over and above the maintenance outlined by Porsche.

For example, I'm going to request that I get an extra DME relay and learn how to insert it. Also, although I have a 97 993, I'll still ask them to check the wiring harness in the engine bay.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

FYI, I've checked with three shops in the L.A. area and the prices I've been quoted so far range from $800-1200.

Thanks in advance.

Robin 993DX

Here is a just a list of items I will replace.

(1). Oil, oil filter
(2). Pollen filter
(3). Transmission fluid
(4). Spark plugs
(5). Distributor caps and rotors
(6). Fuel filter
(7). Brake fluid flush
(8). Clutch slave cylinder flush
(9). All three belts
(10). Replace power steering fluids
(11). Air filter

I would check the brake pads too while you are at it, since they typically need replacement around 35k miles anyways.

Martin S.

The $800 to $1,200 price is about standard in SoCal, $1,200 being Porsche Dealer charge.

CA993

I would highly recommend that you contact Pete at Andial in Santa Ana (714-957-3900) to discuss your service. Even though the drive may be a little far, you can't go wrong with them.

Rohan Nath

Very timely since I'm about 800 miles short of the 30k service.

The dealer in SLC quoted me $ 900 for the service - so in line with SoCal prices.

Robin, thanks for the list. I'll be sure to take a copy with me when I go.

Chris in Detroit

Just wanted to say, that equipped with Robin's www.p-car.com web-site it is absolutely feasible to perform the 30k service yourself - even if you then sub-contracted potentially awkward items e.g. flushing the clutch slave to your local mechanic. This is what I did. And I have very little mechanical experience.

Cost of parts on Robin's list above would be about $250-$300. Quite a difference to $1200 eh ? Leaves a fair budget even for buying all the tools you could possibly require. And the satisfaction is immense.

Outside of that, if you fear some mechanical bits like e.g. changing spark plugs, or even the potential mess of engine oil / transmission fluid, you can still do simple bolt-on, bolt-off items like: pollen filter, distributor cap and rotor, air filter. This could save some hundreds of dollars alone.

Rohan Nath

IMHO part of the value of having a Porsche dealer do the service is building the "audit trail" you need to get a fair price should you ever have to sell the car. How valuable do you guys believe that to be?

I ask because Chris offers one alternative. In my case the shop that maintains my other car (an old Jaguar) offered to do it for $ 450. They do good work on my Jaguar and I would be tempted to give them the work but for the "audit trail" issue.

Anir

Chris, I couldn't help but laugh after reading this. For about 12 years, I've justified countless awesome tool purchases using the money I've saved via DIY projects. In the long run, I bet I haven't saved a penny , but I do have a great set of Snap-On & Craftsman tools, and a big smile on my face.

Temple, in all seriousness, one of the best aspects of doing this stuff yourself is the fact that you really learn your car's mechanicals. I'm not sure that there is any other way than to just get under it and "bond" for a few hours.

Now, I just need a service expensive enough to justify purchase of the beautiful baby below (my back ain't what it used to be):

Chris in Detroit

As far as the audit trail goes, I've lost count (well not really, but call it 3 or 4) of the 993 owners who have told me that e.g. the top right spark plug was still an original plug at 60k service. In other words, the shop didn't change it 'cos its a pain to get to ....... As another example, consider that a "standard" 15k service doesn't necessarily include (depends on the dealer, and how would you know ?) changing both oil filters - this on a car which went to a two oil filter system to protect delicate hydraulic lifters. Me, I'd want to spend the extra 20 bucks and change the filters.

So my point is that when you sell your Porsche, there may be considerable value in an audit trail which consists of your detailed discussion of EXACTLY what has been done to the car - by you, the obsessively caring owner / mechanic. And some would prefer a stamped service book.

As another data point, consider the value of an audit trail could end up costing several thousand dollars in dealer fees which, over 30,000 miles or so, you will save and more by learning how to do work yourself - such as scheduled maintenance, brake flushes, oil changes. Not to mention a better apreciation for your car and its condition - helps avoid "unscheduled" maintenance.

However Anir makes a VERY good point - it becomes too easy to justify purchases to outfit your own "shop".

Anir

Chris,

Nicely said. I'd take the detailed records of a certified car nut any day over the stamps of a dealer's service department. I keep every receipt that pertains to my car - even for silly things like Pentosin fluid.

With few exceptions, few mechanics are going to love your car as much as you do.

Of course, everyone has his or her practical limits. Mine includes transmission work of any kind.

Temple

Unfortunately, while I have used Robin's DYI site to convert my switchblade keys to the two-piece, and I managed to swap my turn signal lenses for clear ones with amber bulbs, the tasks for a 30K mile service involve a bit more than just a screwdriver -- and that's about where my comfort level ends. If anyone is in the L.A. area and wants to take the time to help me, feel free to email me.

Back to the 30K service, thus far I have the following items:
(1). Both oil filters
(2). Pollen filter
(3). Transmission fluid
(4). Spark plugs
(5). Distributor caps and rotors
(6). Fuel filter
(7). Brake fluid flush
(8). Clutch slave cylinder flush
(9). All three belts
(10). Replace power steering fluids
(11). Air filter
(12). Check wiring harness
(13). Get extra DME relay
(14). Check/replace brake pads/rotors (actually, my brake pads are why I'm doing the 30K service at 28.5K miles -- my brake pad warning light lit up at a track event this weekend)

Anything else? I guess its a logical time to remove the undertray if I want to.

Anyway, thanks for the advice thus far.

Chris in Detroit

On the contrary - (2), (5), (11), (13) and (14) can all be accomplished with just a philips head screwdriver and nothing else - well, maybe (14) requires a flat blade to pry the pads out

Seriously, give it a try

Randall G.

Hmmm. $800-$1200 for a major service seems fairly steep to me. I would be thinking more like $600-$1000 (dealer). Would the $800-$1200 figure include all the things Robin lists above?

I've owned my 964 since '92, and don't think I ever paid more than $700 for a major service--maybe $750 at the dealer (with a coupon). Now, that's just for the specified service stuff--plugs, valve adjustment, oil change, air & fuel filter, belts. Doesn't include brakes, fluid flush or replacement, caps & rotors, etc. Oh, and I haven't necessarily taken my car to the cheapest shop. Besides the dealer, the car was also serviced at Black Forest in San Diego, and Absolute Supercars in Costa Mesa.

When I had the 993 engine installed in my car, one rationalization was the money I was going to save on valve adjustments. I've since come to learn that the valve adjustment you save is at least partially offset by the increased difficulty of changing plugs/oil .

Along these lines. About a year ago, my wife's Miata's 30k service came due. Owners manual specifies changing the plugs and oil and filters--maybe one other thing--and inspect fluids, brakes, etc. Call the dealer, and ask them how much for the 30K service. $450, they say. So, I ask the guy very directly, "You charge $450 to change the plugs, oil, air filter and inspect the car?" "Yes, that's right," he says. I call a local independent, and they want $300 for the same work. Hmmm. I wound up taking the car to an independent shop, and asked them to change the oil and plugs. No mention of "major service." Cost me $60, instead of $300-$450. The air filter I changed myself (about $10). I do the "inspection" myself all the time.

Back to the Porsche service cost. If the dealer is charging $1200, but the parts are only-say--$300. That means they are charging you $900 for labor (!), for work that takes them (not me ) less than a day to complete.

I now suspect (but don't know for certain) that both dealers and independent shops charge exorbitant rates for little content in the name of a major service. In other words, what is done during the service costs much more than it would have if done "ala carte."

I'm done ... apologize for being soooo long-winded ...

Anir

Great list, Temple. In reviewing the Workshop manual (yes, it's an original, Ray), you might also consider the following if they haven't been done in the past 12 months:

- Lubricate door hinges (I use Wurth HHS spray lubricant, available from www.carcarespecialties.com)

- Adjust free travel on parking brake lever

- Change entry unit battery (on remote)

- Top off the electrolyte in your battery, if it a model requiring maintenance (i.e. non-sealed). In the past, I've used distilled water.

N.B. - Some of the stuff on your list is not "required" by the manual until later (e.g. fuel filter change and flush of transmission oil at 80,000 km), although I'd agree with you that sooner is better. For example, when I changed my transmission oil at 6,500 miles, it was already looking pretty dirty, and there were a few fine metal flakes stuck to the magnetic drain bolt.

Your comprehensive list could result in an even higher dealer service cost, couldn't it, since they would not be expecting to do all this? Randall makes a very valid point - you might be better off pricing the tasks individually, rather than asking for a "major service" which may actually differ in definition from yours.

Best of luck!

JDW

I think the "audit value" for me and others I've talked to Rohan is not who did the work but what work was done. Dealers turn cars like hamburgers. Volume more than hands on care from mine and others experience. Things you should look for: Was proper maintenance followed. Are brake rotors being changed at 20k miles, Clutch replacement etc. This tells you how hard a life the car has. More important what's being done than who is doing it. Unless Fishman and I or some known hack is doing major work. An experienced buyer will know this. Someone who is not, is buying the prestige and name anyway and might want the fancy stamps in their book. They won't know what to look for anyway and buy on looks and impulse. As long as the shop has a good reputation and aren't in over their heads with a job (proper tools help) I think you are safe. Just my opinion though, which means I wouldn't base a life decision on it. ASK OTHERS IN AREA. It might mean more in your location than mine.