D.G..

Could those of you who have TRG sway bars please tell me what setting you use (F & R) for the street? I am thinking about upgrading and these bars have received a lot of positive comments on this board, but there have also been a few comments about them being skittish (too stiff). What do you think?

I currently have M030 sway bars (22mm/20mm), H&R coilovers, and don’t track my car. Wheels are 17" cups with 225/265.

Other options include:

1) 22mm/21mm (M030 turbo) (new rear bar only)
2) 23mm/20mm (993RS $$$)
3) 23mm/21mm (Performance Products kit)
4) 25mm/22mm (TRG)
5) 26mm/24mm (H&R) (?? not considering these)

Obviously option 1 would be the least expensive, but I don’t want to go that route only to upgrade again in a year or two. Option 3 also looks interesting, but I haven’t heard from anyone who has tried the Performance Products kit. Has anyone tried them out?

FYI, here is a link to the Performance Products kit: http://www.performanceproducts.com/P...producttype=20

ceboyd

if you never track your car for DE events, I'd recommend option #1 for you..

chris walrod

Wow, just checked the Perf. Products pricing for their anti-roll bars. They cost more than the RS versions..????

viperbob

How can anything cost MORE than RS bars?? If you want a laugh, you know that factory GT2/3 adjustable (and hollow lightweight) bars sell from Porsche for around $170? Porsche does some CRAZY stuff...

TheOtherEric

If you don't track your car, then don't waste your money on changing sway bars. Stock sway bars work just fine. But if you really feel the need to change them, then I'd recommend option #1.

D.G..

I agree that option 1 would be the most practical, but I am not convinced that it would give me the improvement I am looking for. With the current setup (H&R coilovers and M030 sway bars) the body roll is quite high with respect to the stiffness of the rest of the system. I would like to reduce the body roll by 30%-60%. Adjustability would be a bonus.

D.G..

As a point of interest, we still haven't heard from any TRG owners. Which holes do you use? Do you run the same setup on the track and street? Is there practical downside to running them on the street?

Mark in Baltimore

I have the TRG bars with Motons. On the track I run the rear bar in the middle hole and the front somewhere near the middle, depending on the track and how I want the car to handle. My TRG bars have been completely trouble-free, but I've only had them for less than six months.

WRT to being too skittish, they seem fine to me. Are they too stiff for the street? Well, I can count on one hand the number of times my car has seen street duty since installing the Motons, monoballs and TRG bars, but I didn't think the car rode that badly. Of course, I was gentle over the bumps and such.

If you really want the adjustability of the TRG's, just go ahead and get them. I really don't think they degrade ride quality that much. Besides, it's a sports car, ya know, and a Porsche, to boot.

ceboyd

We both have the TRGs in our 993s.. and drive to/from events with the cars.. it is noticably harsher with the TRG from M030 change... the car beats us up on the street but it's all grins on the track!

...in other words, we 'grin and bear it' in the street in order to have all the responsiveness on the track!

(If anyone wanted my Euro (from Gert) M030 sway bars, let me know!)

Ron Cohn

I have the TRG bars and PSS-9 coilovers on my C2S. When I have my Michelin Sport Cups mounted on the car for the track, I have found that I need full stiff settings in the rear and full soft on the front. The extra width rear tires on the widebody tends to make the car push (understeer) and this is increased with R compund tires.

If you have a narrow body, I would start with middle settings on both front and rear and adjust from there. The extra traction of R compound tires definitely adds to the push on a widebody and R tires should have the same effect on a narrow body. I might have preferred that TRG would have designed the front bar with 1-2 mm less diameter, especially for my widebody.

I like the flat handling of the TRG bars and find them fine for the street.

D.G..

Great responses everyone, thank you. Please keep them coming.

Ceboyd, did you make any other changes when you put the TRGs on that could account for the harsher ride?

ceboyd

..nope.. not at the same time.. I like to do things in phases to see what the changes do at the track... and the TRGs really stiffened the ride up even more (it was already stiff and just got worse) ...almost unbearable on bad roads but the polar opposite on the track...

I simply would NOT recommend the TRGs for a street ONLY car (even on the weakest setting)..... I guess that is just me though...

viperbob

People are sensitive in different ways to suspension. Sway bars effectively act as stiffer springs ONLY when one wheel is acting independently of the other. In most circumstances when driving straight down the street, both tires are acting roughly in unison, so there is zero effect by the sway bar. So if someone tells you it is riding rougher with thicker sway bars in that instance, it is just not possible. On rough roads with major bumps and pot holes with dampers that are not good enough to handle the extra in essense spring rate caused by the twisting of the bars, then you will may get an unfavorable ride. As with anything, adding to these cars is all about balance. M030 struts (even if they are good) were never designed to have thicker than M030 bars, so adding much thicker bars will put them past their effective range in many instances. PSS9s are designed for heavier springs and the subsequent valving handles the sway bars just fine.. Your H&Rs should also be able to handle the extra load just fine...

D.G..

Viperbob has such a superb reputation that I have to give his opinion an enormous amount of weight. Having said that, and with due respect to Bob, I am still curious about the Performance Products option. Hold on, don’t flame me yet!!

The TRG bars must be mounted below the lower A-arms, necessitating the removal of one end of the struts in order to move the collars down several inches, and later a visit to the alignment shop to verify that things went back in exactly right. This is not a DIY for me, and between the install and alignment adds several hundred dollars to the overall cost.
My question is, can the Performance Products bars be mounted above the A-arms? If the answer is yes, then the install would be a DIY and no alignment would be required. The overall cost would be a wash with the TRG option (?), with the advantage of having an adjustment range that is centered for street use. I suspect the answer is no, they also have to be mounted below, but hey, if I don't ask I'll never know! (O.K, flame on.)

TheOtherEric

I also have TRG bars, and like Ceboyd, I would definitely NOT recommend them for street use. Remember that sway bars act to negate the entire idea of independent suspension, and your ride quality most certainly WILL deteriorate with bigger bars. That's just the way it is, sorry. I'm not disagreeing with Viperbob; on a perfectly smooth road you won't see any difference, but here in Chicago the roads are a far cry from perfect and I don't appreciate the TRG bars on the streets. The thicker the bars, the more gokart-like your handling. Great on the track, horrible on the street.

I also agree with Ron that the front should be 1-2 mm smaller. My car is set up full loose up front and middle in back (only because I can't reach the tightest hole in back due to improper installation) and my car is neutral to understeering. Even if I could reach that one tighter setting in back, I doubt it would make my car as loose as I want. Anyway, this entire discussion is MOOT for you since you don't track it. Seriously, I think it makes no sense at all to put this setup on a street car even if it's a cost-free option. I mean, geesh, why not install H&R race suspension while you're at it??