new thoughts: on pro's and con's of 3.8litre conversion?
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looked into this. it's pricey, but subjectively and arguably worth it.
since i'm clearly not being objective about the 3.8 litre displacement upgrade, other ideas on the pro's and con's of this?
thanks.
since i'm clearly not being objective about the 3.8 litre displacement upgrade, other ideas on the pro's and con's of this?
thanks.
#2
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What's the costs? Does it compare to Supercharging? Do a search as there was a 16K miles down the track post on a Supercharge job from a satisfied customer? I wonder which puts out more horspower and torque?
Dylan.
Dylan.
#5
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I did it (but then I am not always reasonable
). I have said this many times before, but in retrospect, I would first go for RoW gear ratios. Half the price, less work and the difference is really noticeable.
The hp gain on the 3.8L conversion is not that much (about 18 hp as mentioned above) but the resulting torque curve is much flatter, giving you more low end torque.
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The hp gain on the 3.8L conversion is not that much (about 18 hp as mentioned above) but the resulting torque curve is much flatter, giving you more low end torque.
#6
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I have yet to see a supercharger at any DE event (attending 45-50), and the 16K model from this list hasn't been tracked. If I was tracking I would go with a 3.8 vs. supercharging; however,
I echo Phil's comments, that there are less expensive routes to get similar performance. In any case, here are some numbers that I got with my 3.8.
I had my car back to back dyno'd after the upgrade. I use my car for the street as well as DE, so I went with hydraulic lifters for lower maintenance. HP gains were minimal, around 11 hp. Solid lifters would probably add another 5-8 hp due to higher redline. (All figures are at the rear wheel.) The torque curves; however, were very different with ~15-28 lb/ft throughout the meat of the range. The car is noticably stronger on the street, and timed faster at every track. It is also more fun. The tighter the track the more noticeable the torque difference.
I had mine done by selling stocks during the NASDAQ frenzy, so during my "ten minutes of fame", $$ wasn't a big issue. I have no regrets, and absolutely LOVE the car. However, today I would go with LSD first and then RoW gears second.
I echo Phil's comments, that there are less expensive routes to get similar performance. In any case, here are some numbers that I got with my 3.8.
I had my car back to back dyno'd after the upgrade. I use my car for the street as well as DE, so I went with hydraulic lifters for lower maintenance. HP gains were minimal, around 11 hp. Solid lifters would probably add another 5-8 hp due to higher redline. (All figures are at the rear wheel.) The torque curves; however, were very different with ~15-28 lb/ft throughout the meat of the range. The car is noticably stronger on the street, and timed faster at every track. It is also more fun. The tighter the track the more noticeable the torque difference.
I had mine done by selling stocks during the NASDAQ frenzy, so during my "ten minutes of fame", $$ wasn't a big issue. I have no regrets, and absolutely LOVE the car. However, today I would go with LSD first and then RoW gears second.
#7
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[quote]Originally posted by 993RS:
<strong>I did it (but then I am not always reasonable
). I have said this many times before, but in retrospect, I would first go for RoW gear ratios. Half the price, less work and the difference is really noticeable.
The hp gain on the 3.8L conversion is not that much (about 18 hp as mentioned above) but the resulting torque curve is much flatter, giving you more low end torque.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with Phil, spend $7,000 + for a gear box re-build using 993RS CS gears and steel synchros found in the G50/32 transmission. Or you can change the Ring and Pinion for about $4,000 installed. Either way, you have spent about half of what you did on the 3.8 conversion.
If money were no object, I'd do the G50/32 993RS CS tranny and the 3.8, and the Evo Uprights, the suspension, and....the list is endless, too bad the available money is not!
<strong>I did it (but then I am not always reasonable
![Big Grin](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
The hp gain on the 3.8L conversion is not that much (about 18 hp as mentioned above) but the resulting torque curve is much flatter, giving you more low end torque.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with Phil, spend $7,000 + for a gear box re-build using 993RS CS gears and steel synchros found in the G50/32 transmission. Or you can change the Ring and Pinion for about $4,000 installed. Either way, you have spent about half of what you did on the 3.8 conversion.
If money were no object, I'd do the G50/32 993RS CS tranny and the 3.8, and the Evo Uprights, the suspension, and....the list is endless, too bad the available money is not!
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#9
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[quote]Originally posted by Silver Bullet:
<strong>I decided that $12K for this kit is just too rich for my blood, and that's not easy to do. I am going with the lower gearing, LW flywheel, and chip as my first "power" mods when the time comes. For now, my car is plenty fast enough for me and I can't yet outdrive it on the track.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi:
I would jump in here and simply echo Kim's plan.
The biggest bang-for-the-bucks will be close-ratio gears, LW flywheel, and a good chip. I would only touch the engine when it needs work and then, consider all the options. There are less expensive ways to do the 3.8 upgrade than the Factory kit, anymore.
<strong>I decided that $12K for this kit is just too rich for my blood, and that's not easy to do. I am going with the lower gearing, LW flywheel, and chip as my first "power" mods when the time comes. For now, my car is plenty fast enough for me and I can't yet outdrive it on the track.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi:
I would jump in here and simply echo Kim's plan.
The biggest bang-for-the-bucks will be close-ratio gears, LW flywheel, and a good chip. I would only touch the engine when it needs work and then, consider all the options. There are less expensive ways to do the 3.8 upgrade than the Factory kit, anymore.
#11
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[quote]Originally posted by Martin:
<strong>
I agree with Phil, spend $7,000 + for a gear box re-build using 993RS CS gears and steel synchros found in the G50/32 transmission. Or you can change the Ring and Pinion for about $4,000 installed. Either way, you have spent about half of what you did on the 3.8 conversion.
If money were no object, I'd do the G50/32 993RS CS tranny and the 3.8, and the Evo Uprights, the suspension, and....the list is endless, too bad the available money is not!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Someone who wants all this (except 3.8L) should just buy DJ's car. I think it has all the above - ready to go.
<strong>
I agree with Phil, spend $7,000 + for a gear box re-build using 993RS CS gears and steel synchros found in the G50/32 transmission. Or you can change the Ring and Pinion for about $4,000 installed. Either way, you have spent about half of what you did on the 3.8 conversion.
If money were no object, I'd do the G50/32 993RS CS tranny and the 3.8, and the Evo Uprights, the suspension, and....the list is endless, too bad the available money is not!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Someone who wants all this (except 3.8L) should just buy DJ's car. I think it has all the above - ready to go.
#12
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[quote]Originally posted by 993RS:
<strong>Martin,
What are "Evo Uprights"? (Hate to think I might have missed something...
)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Phil,
EVO uprights are made to go with a lowered car. Geometry is different so you don't screw up the bump steer when lowering. Not sure if there are other aspects to that part.
<strong>Martin,
What are "Evo Uprights"? (Hate to think I might have missed something...
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Phil,
EVO uprights are made to go with a lowered car. Geometry is different so you don't screw up the bump steer when lowering. Not sure if there are other aspects to that part.
#13
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Mark:
Good answer. If you use the EVO or more correctly, RS, uprights then you must also use the RS tie rods, as they are a different design than the stock 993 parts. You should probably change the bearings while you are at it and you'll need new front caliper bolts, as you will be removing the old ones. It is a straightforward install that does not change ride height but does necessitate an alignment as the toe and camber will be changed. A press or puller is required to remove the outer race from the front spindles and install new bearings in the new uprights.
Hank
Good answer. If you use the EVO or more correctly, RS, uprights then you must also use the RS tie rods, as they are a different design than the stock 993 parts. You should probably change the bearings while you are at it and you'll need new front caliper bolts, as you will be removing the old ones. It is a straightforward install that does not change ride height but does necessitate an alignment as the toe and camber will be changed. A press or puller is required to remove the outer race from the front spindles and install new bearings in the new uprights.
Hank
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thanks for the good advice, guys.
think i'd skip the supercharging then and deal with gears and/or the rear end first.
cool.
(steve: i'm going to do the chip as soon as my wife's landscaping is paid for....)
think i'd skip the supercharging then and deal with gears and/or the rear end first.
cool.
(steve: i'm going to do the chip as soon as my wife's landscaping is paid for....)