993 vs Viper
08-07-2001, 09:08 AM
#61
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Originally posted by brucemckenney:
<STRONG>E.J. The Porsches that race with the Vipers in the Porsche Challenge Series are hand picked by me. Their lap times must fall WITHIN the Viper lap times. You would not have to look hard to find Porsche race cars that could dominate.</STRONG>
<STRONG>E.J. The Porsches that race with the Vipers in the Porsche Challenge Series are hand picked by me. Their lap times must fall WITHIN the Viper lap times. You would not have to look hard to find Porsche race cars that could dominate.</STRONG>
I was wondering why G&W didn't bring their 996 GT3R or 993 GT-2 down for some fun!
Greg
08-07-2001, 10:20 AM
#62
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Can't we all just get along?!! 
Sounds like good old fun. Roscoe and Boss Hog should be along shortly to really stir things up.
Btw, there is no replacement for displacement.
Sounds like good old fun. Roscoe and Boss Hog should be along shortly to really stir things up.
Btw, there is no replacement for displacement.
08-07-2001, 10:48 AM
#63
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I agree with you (Amir) also. I didn't mean I want to have totally strip down racer, or maybe I do. I do want to have every day car but I don't wanna have Porsche because it's Porsche, I wanna have porsche because it's a real sports car. I think ex. cup holders are a bit too much for a spors tcar, those things are for boulevard cruisers or 'normal' cars (especially if someone complains about missing cupholders ;-). If I wanna have luxury car, I'll buy Mercedes.
But, good thing is: when I'll buy my second Porsche, I can choose one which doesn't have automatic transmission (I don't get it, automatic tranny in 911?) and I can always turn traction control etc. off, and can install bucket seats to my 911, although A/C is a must down here at miami
My fear is (and I hope this will not happend); Porsche is becoming more and more like cell phones in these days are: you have all kinds of gadgets, millions of nice little features, they look good but you really can't talk with them so well, because the reception is so bad.
But, good thing is: when I'll buy my second Porsche, I can choose one which doesn't have automatic transmission (I don't get it, automatic tranny in 911?) and I can always turn traction control etc. off, and can install bucket seats to my 911, although A/C is a must down here at miami
My fear is (and I hope this will not happend); Porsche is becoming more and more like cell phones in these days are: you have all kinds of gadgets, millions of nice little features, they look good but you really can't talk with them so well, because the reception is so bad.
08-07-2001, 11:07 AM
#64
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Well first off EJ cool down a bit with all the loud noise talk against the viper guys.If you or any porsche could beat them you would have no need for excuses just do it. I don't know if any of you race professionally but I do 16 races a year on the NMRA circuit. In my class first place pays 11K plus my contingency money in case you guys don't know what that is thats all the stickers on the side of the car showing what parts you are running. It cost me about $2500 just to get to a race hotel rooms, fuel, food and all track fees to enter a car and crew. Anir don't talk about subjects you have no clue about. EJ you know as well as I there is a lot of trash talk at the track. EJ you asked me once who I knew that raced winston cup well I guess it's time to say who my friend is, its the #32 tide car driver Ricky Craven. He tells me about all the talk on and off the track. I can tell you this I have about 10 sponsers that help put my car on the track jesel valve train, earls performance plumbing, Nitrious Oxide Systems,msd ignition, wilson manifolds, Kenny Lafferty race engines, Larry Meaux racing heads, Ricky Craven thanks for the yates heads, holly performance thats just a few of the sponsers that give me help to put my car on the track. I think that if I did not have a chance to win I would not show up and waist my time and sponsers money to lose. We go to the PRI show every year EJ again you know what that is to get sponsers to help with the cost of putting together a first class race team. I think that if I told all the companys that help me out that my race team was timid and professional they would say do you win races? thats the bottom line is your car fast not how nice of a guy you are. The old saying says the bull**** stops when the flag drops and nice guys finish last in racing thats the truth. Race it or leave it home to talk about it. If you build it race it. To all viper guys I'm sorry for all the yuppie (gentlemanly) guys talking a lot of noise. I don't make snotty comments I talk the talk
SWAMP MONSTER 
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08-07-2001, 11:42 AM
#65
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Thanks Robin for reminding that!
I guess those (air-cooled, interior etc.) are the biggest reasons why 993's are still more desirable (than 996 or Boxster) to many of us
one great thing I heard once: I was walking behind the guys when there was 993 S parked next to street, guys looked it's rear and other one said: "I gotta say that's a mighty fine *** there my friend!"
I guess those (air-cooled, interior etc.) are the biggest reasons why 993's are still more desirable (than 996 or Boxster) to many of us
one great thing I heard once: I was walking behind the guys when there was 993 S parked next to street, guys looked it's rear and other one said: "I gotta say that's a mighty fine *** there my friend!"
08-07-2001, 12:09 PM
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First, let me apologize for my previous post: I was under the influence of the finest Kentucky Burboun around - since I am 'relaxing' at the beach... 
I did not mean to offend anyone, but I do get tired of the "my car is faster than yours mentality". In this regard I agree with George - the BS stops flying when the green flag drops. Unfortunately, there are not many true racers among us - mostly DE guys who have a ton of fun with their street cars...
Bruce, you wrote:
Please understand that I meant no harm and was not criticizing your event in any way. In fact it was the most enjoyable weekend I have had at the track in a long time. I do notice that you say your racers run crate motors, and I don't dispute this. But the fact is, a 500 hp crate motor is going to be faster than a 320 hp Cup car motor. I was just pointing out the fact that the 993 cup car sure held its own with the big block muscle you provide for our enjoyment.
In closing, let me say this: once again we all are very lucky to be driving the cars we do and even more to enjoy them at the track in the manner that we do. Buy the one you like and feel right in. I know I drive mine because of the 40 years of air-cooled, hand-built history and the 10000 or some odd victories at racetracks around the world.
Now everyone go out and have fun.
I did not mean to offend anyone, but I do get tired of the "my car is faster than yours mentality". In this regard I agree with George - the BS stops flying when the green flag drops. Unfortunately, there are not many true racers among us - mostly DE guys who have a ton of fun with their street cars...Bruce, you wrote:
Originally posted by brucemckenney:
<STRONG>E.J. Remember, the cars in the Viper Racing League must run crate motors. The Porsches that race with the Vipers in the Porsche Challenge Series are hand picked by me. Their lap times must fall WITHIN the Viper lap times. You would not have to look hard to find Porsche race cars that could dominate.</STRONG>
<STRONG>E.J. Remember, the cars in the Viper Racing League must run crate motors. The Porsches that race with the Vipers in the Porsche Challenge Series are hand picked by me. Their lap times must fall WITHIN the Viper lap times. You would not have to look hard to find Porsche race cars that could dominate.</STRONG>
In closing, let me say this: once again we all are very lucky to be driving the cars we do and even more to enjoy them at the track in the manner that we do. Buy the one you like and feel right in. I know I drive mine because of the 40 years of air-cooled, hand-built history and the 10000 or some odd victories at racetracks around the world.
Now everyone go out and have fun.
08-07-2001, 01:19 PM
#67
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Originally posted by E. J.:
<STRONG>...In closing, let me say this: once again we all are very lucky to be driving the cars we do and even more to enjoy them at the track in the manner that we do. Buy the one you like and feel right in. I know I drive mine because of the 40 years of air-cooled, hand-built history and the 10000 or some odd victories at racetracks around the world.
Now everyone go out and have fun.</STRONG>
<STRONG>...In closing, let me say this: once again we all are very lucky to be driving the cars we do and even more to enjoy them at the track in the manner that we do. Buy the one you like and feel right in. I know I drive mine because of the 40 years of air-cooled, hand-built history and the 10000 or some odd victories at racetracks around the world.
Now everyone go out and have fun.</STRONG>
08-07-2001, 02:43 PM
#68
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Carlos,
The 928 board link is on the left side there it says "928" click there and post away.
When you get a 993, welcome to our group.
George,
No need to appologize on our behalf. You brought us down to the Viper mentality level all on your own. Thanks!
The 928 board link is on the left side there it says "928" click there and post away.
When you get a 993, welcome to our group.
George,
No need to appologize on our behalf. You brought us down to the Viper mentality level all on your own. Thanks!
08-07-2001, 03:00 PM
#69
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Thank you associate moderator SeanD. I missed the part about car ownership being a requirement to post an a particular board when I filled out my membership. You might want to email Porsche so that they can institute MMPI (personality) testing before they sell a car. That way it could be assured that no "wrong thinking" individual could buy a Porsche.
PS In addition to the other cars you own, you might want to list watches, jewlery, hi-fi equipment etc. That way all your brother yuppies would be even more impressed.
PS In addition to the other cars you own, you might want to list watches, jewlery, hi-fi equipment etc. That way all your brother yuppies would be even more impressed.
08-07-2001, 04:18 PM
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I think that most people are missing the point in this thread.
Comparing cars on the track has a lot to do with tuning, set-up, and especially DRIVER ABILITY. So, that being said - you have to define the goals of owning the car.
Is it to drive it 20 miles to the track every weekend and race; or is it to drive 20,000 miles a year and do high speed meditation on a 500 mile trip across the country in relative comfort and alot of fun.
I don't think the P-cars can keep up with the Vippers from stop-light to stop-light, but driving from Chicago to LA with the wife and trying to make REALLY good time in comfort with luggage - I would take the P-car. Two very different goals.
Also I think the P-cars have a longevity that the Vippers do not have. I don't think you will see too many Vipers that have 150K on the ODO and have never had the engine apart.
FWIW - I bought my 930 from a guy who also owned a Viper at the same time. He owned them both for quite a while and used them differently and loved the hell out of them both. After he sold me the 930 he sold the Viper and got a Countach.
Different cars = different goals.
Jeb
'79 930
PS - I think opinions would be different if more people were from Germany and cruising the Autobahn instead of the speed deprived US
Comparing cars on the track has a lot to do with tuning, set-up, and especially DRIVER ABILITY. So, that being said - you have to define the goals of owning the car.
Is it to drive it 20 miles to the track every weekend and race; or is it to drive 20,000 miles a year and do high speed meditation on a 500 mile trip across the country in relative comfort and alot of fun.
I don't think the P-cars can keep up with the Vippers from stop-light to stop-light, but driving from Chicago to LA with the wife and trying to make REALLY good time in comfort with luggage - I would take the P-car. Two very different goals.
Also I think the P-cars have a longevity that the Vippers do not have. I don't think you will see too many Vipers that have 150K on the ODO and have never had the engine apart.
FWIW - I bought my 930 from a guy who also owned a Viper at the same time. He owned them both for quite a while and used them differently and loved the hell out of them both. After he sold me the 930 he sold the Viper and got a Countach.
Different cars = different goals.
Jeb
'79 930
PS - I think opinions would be different if more people were from Germany and cruising the Autobahn instead of the speed deprived US
08-07-2001, 04:28 PM
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Carlos,
From your signature "87 928S4, chip, K&N, Strosek wheels"
Why don't you post your Horsepower and 1/4 mile times so all your mechanic buddies can be impressed?
A junior level insult from a junior.
From your signature "87 928S4, chip, K&N, Strosek wheels"
Why don't you post your Horsepower and 1/4 mile times so all your mechanic buddies can be impressed?
A junior level insult from a junior.
08-07-2001, 05:13 PM
#72
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I want to apologize in advance to the members of the board for allowing this flame-baiting to draw me in. This will be my last post on this topic, giving Carlos the chance for the last word.
Carlos,
I certainly do not understand your mentality. Why does it bother you that someone might enjoy sharing their love of cars with their children? Do you have any? My kids are 2 and 3 years old, and the smiles they wear when riding in the 993 makes me the happiest guy on earth.
Why are you so incessantly consumed that someone might consider you a "wimp", "snob", "yuppie" or member of a sewing circle? All this while you couldn't care less if Rennlist members like you for the content of your posts.
Do you really feel that aftermarket wheels, a K&N filter, and a performance chip on a 80's 928 makes you a race car driver? However, car seats and leather in my 993TT disqualifies it as a sports car?
In the right driver's hands (not mine, I'm sure), my car, with all four family members aboard, would give your "hot rod" a sound thrashing - with the A/C running and a nice CD playing. And, a 996TT with its cupholders and all could spank my car pretty hard. What's it matter?
Jeb really summed it up well when he said "Different cars = different goals". I love Vipers, and heard nothing but positive feedback from EJ, Greg, and the others who visited the Viper event at VIR last month. Vipers are great, 993s are wonderful, and your 928 is a sweet car. Let it go, dude.
The members of this board love racing, but they also happen to love car design, automotive maintenance, and maybe even concours-type stuff. It's not just about racing for us normal, earth-bound types.
George, I stand by my comment about men behaving as gentleman.
If I've offended anyone with any of my posts, please let me be the first to apologize.
Carlos,
I certainly do not understand your mentality. Why does it bother you that someone might enjoy sharing their love of cars with their children? Do you have any? My kids are 2 and 3 years old, and the smiles they wear when riding in the 993 makes me the happiest guy on earth.
Why are you so incessantly consumed that someone might consider you a "wimp", "snob", "yuppie" or member of a sewing circle? All this while you couldn't care less if Rennlist members like you for the content of your posts.
Do you really feel that aftermarket wheels, a K&N filter, and a performance chip on a 80's 928 makes you a race car driver? However, car seats and leather in my 993TT disqualifies it as a sports car?
In the right driver's hands (not mine, I'm sure), my car, with all four family members aboard, would give your "hot rod" a sound thrashing - with the A/C running and a nice CD playing.
And, a 996TT with its cupholders and all could spank my car pretty hard. What's it matter?Jeb really summed it up well when he said "Different cars = different goals". I love Vipers, and heard nothing but positive feedback from EJ, Greg, and the others who visited the Viper event at VIR last month. Vipers are great, 993s are wonderful, and your 928 is a sweet car. Let it go, dude.
The members of this board love racing, but they also happen to love car design, automotive maintenance, and maybe even concours-type stuff. It's not just about racing for us normal, earth-bound types.
George, I stand by my comment about men behaving as gentleman.
If I've offended anyone with any of my posts, please let me be the first to apologize.
08-07-2001, 06:00 PM
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Jeb : I see cab drivers with 225k on chevy caprice cabs yes pushrod motors so explain that, if you doubt me ask the local cab company. I also doubt that the cab motor gets fresh mobil 1 five qt. jugs from wall mart every 3k. I also doubt if Alex Job racing lets his motor go 150k ask his race team and see. I had a porsche motor once so I'm speaking from experience and it was (no flames please) JUNK it allowed the local wrench to have club seating on the 45 yard line for saints games on me. He says thank you porsche send me some more mules so my kids can continue to go to private schools. So my point is how well you take care of it is what counts.
SeanD: Carlos does not need anybody to speak for him, but my guess is the reason he is not posting that info because he is not trying to seek approval from anybody. SeanD the issue at hand is why post about how many cars you have we are talking about 993-Vipers thats the main topic at hand. I don't post the times or speeds about my car I don't have to race me and find out if its fast or not. Point being made is wipe your own *** don't turn the job over to someone else. If you want to find out how fast Carlos 928 is race him and see put a little cash on the line then the truth will tell same goes with me try me.
Anir: Carlos and I have forgot more about racing than you will ever see in your life. Carlos never said his car was a hotrod or even fast I did and stand by that statement 101%. Anir you could at least with a 100k car buy matching seats for your kids since they love to ride in your 993tt so much simpson makes some. Anir and all others including vipers try me I will race for your rolex against mine or cash money any day you want. I play with big money toys everyday lets talk about bikes now. That ducati superbike that you have Anir did you ever heal from trying to be like Doug Chandler because if I remember you fell down, Doug is AMA superbike champion. I have a GSXR750 I have never been down and I drive it like I stole it but not trying to be like Doug. I have seen a lot of talk but very little action, don't flip the scrip deal with the cards you are dealt with. When the viper guys bully up at a DE, race them don't make stories up about plastic interior parts or I'm short on hp then go buy some hp thats lame. Dr. Porsche won LeMans in 1959 by not being a chicken don't let him down when the vipers bully up just race. This is my last post on this topic. just my 2 cents
SWAMP MONSTER
Champion Colby Pitbull Buckwheat
Champion Jeep Pitbull Reddog
2000 Cadillac Escalde
1999 GSXR 750 (750cc Prod national Champion)
Super street outlaw mustang #4 NMRA
2001 Ford F-350
1999 42' Pace gooseneck with a/c
36 Pack Charmin to deal with all the bull**** on this board
SeanD: Carlos does not need anybody to speak for him, but my guess is the reason he is not posting that info because he is not trying to seek approval from anybody. SeanD the issue at hand is why post about how many cars you have we are talking about 993-Vipers thats the main topic at hand. I don't post the times or speeds about my car I don't have to race me and find out if its fast or not. Point being made is wipe your own *** don't turn the job over to someone else. If you want to find out how fast Carlos 928 is race him and see put a little cash on the line then the truth will tell same goes with me try me.
Anir: Carlos and I have forgot more about racing than you will ever see in your life. Carlos never said his car was a hotrod or even fast I did and stand by that statement 101%. Anir you could at least with a 100k car buy matching seats for your kids since they love to ride in your 993tt so much simpson makes some. Anir and all others including vipers try me I will race for your rolex against mine or cash money any day you want. I play with big money toys everyday lets talk about bikes now. That ducati superbike that you have Anir did you ever heal from trying to be like Doug Chandler because if I remember you fell down, Doug is AMA superbike champion. I have a GSXR750 I have never been down and I drive it like I stole it but not trying to be like Doug. I have seen a lot of talk but very little action, don't flip the scrip deal with the cards you are dealt with. When the viper guys bully up at a DE, race them don't make stories up about plastic interior parts or I'm short on hp then go buy some hp thats lame. Dr. Porsche won LeMans in 1959 by not being a chicken don't let him down when the vipers bully up just race. This is my last post on this topic. just my 2 cents
SWAMP MONSTER
Champion Colby Pitbull Buckwheat
Champion Jeep Pitbull Reddog
2000 Cadillac Escalde
1999 GSXR 750 (750cc Prod national Champion)
Super street outlaw mustang #4 NMRA
2001 Ford F-350
1999 42' Pace gooseneck with a/c
36 Pack Charmin to deal with all the bull**** on this board