JWKC

I belive my 993 GT2 has a better handling, a better looking, a better performing, and a more exclusive car than the Viper GTS Even compare with ACR.

la993 uk

Vipers look stunning and provide a rarity that Porsches haven't had since the seventies
let's face it Porsches while not exactly common, can be seen everyday. -
Sure, park the two next to each other and the Viper will draw more attention.
But then the same applies to Ferraris and the stunning TVR Tuscan S (3 in USA? and not road legal)

Vipers are very,very fast,and yes they do go round corners (and yes I have driven one), but they don't have the 'feel' of a Porsche or Ferrari.

If you are going so fast that the handling difference between a Porsche and a Viper makes a difference then to are going far too fast for the roads anyway. But if you are on the track then...
...All the Nurburgring/Hockenhiem records belong to Gemballa/Techart/Rooke modified Porsches and the Blitz Supras - don't see any Vipers

I'm sure the Viper is the best car beginning with 'V' made in america (if you don't count 'Vette) and what a surprise, if you modify it to racing spec it's as fast a a race car!!!

La993uk

If you are fortunate enough to afford it,
just buy the car you like and enjoy life,
remenber,it's not a dress rehearsal.

Mike W

I had the feeling my starting this thread would create alot of strong emotions about the 993 and Viper. I really appreciate the feedback from all of you. To restate my problem - I can have one car or the other, not both(wish I could). Options like RUF conversion(I would love to)or TT(ditto) are financially not feasable right now. I really can't make up my mind. Although these cars are different they are both winners in my mind. Mabe I should just sell my house and live in one of the cars. Thanks so much for all of your input. Mike W

Randall G.

Personally, I can't see owning a Viper.

There's no place for the dog to ride!

brucemckenney

As Chief Steward for Viperdays and The Viper Racing League, I can offer a little perspective. I'm a Porschephile. Always have been. 50+ years of performance development is hard to beat. Every 911 model change has produced quantum improvements in suspension, brakes, and powertrain. But Porsche is undergoing a market-based change to more user friendly, compromise performance and ride quality products.
Vipers were developed as a modern version of the Cobra AC. Carol Shelby's vision was to produce a simple vehicle with the visceral thrill of competant handling with enough hp/torque to be able to power oversteer at any given moment. Early reviews of the Viper overstated its "flexy flier" qualities. As an instructor in these early Vipers, I was shocked at how forgiving they were. A student could get by with mistakes in a Viper that would make a 911 a frisbee. The newer GTS sedans became much more rigid yet continued forgiveness. Then there's that torque!! The first time I drove a Viper, the *** came out on me in third gear on a straightaway. It took a moment to identify what had happened!
Yes, the 996 TT is easier to drive fast. Computers are not far from doing the actual driving via GPS. Vipers on the other hand, are just now coming out with ABS, thinking such sophistication was contrary to the Viper heritage.
Throughout my development, it was said that if you could drive a 930, you could drive anything. Now I'm saying "If you can drive Viper, you can drive anything."
Most of our instructors are a select group of Porsche instructors. It's not easy finding instructors that are comfortable in the passenger seat of such a torquey car in the hands of a rookie driver. Hence the hat they proudly wear; "Bigger ***** than most."
Race car to race car with equal drivers would be tough to call. Porsches would be superior in braking and cornering while Vipers would be superior in straightaways.
Owners are equally passionate about their cars. Viper owners tend to be, more often, self made wealth in blue collar industry; thus the personality differences.
If pigs could fly--give me a 996 GT AND an Oreca Viper GTS-R. Then shoot me cause it ain't gonna get better!

Carlos

Hey Toronto, My buddy George has a 911 "nothing" to quote you. He told me that he's just waiting for the chance to strap some viper ***. The only problem is he doesn't want to put a lot of needless wear & tear on his car wading through the slugs. It seemss that SW blew the paint off of Mr. H. So let's go right to the fast ones. Line 'em up. Just bring the fast ones first. No need to waste gas on the dogs.

Keith Verges - Dallas

No doubt the 993 is more refined in many ways; my friends with 993s and other 911-variants love them. But any 993 owner who thinks his car will run with my GTS, then come on down to Texas and I'll run my stock '01 GTS against your stock 993. You turn a faster lap and I'll pay for your trip. Lose and you put a license plate on your Porsche that says "I wish I had a Viper" ;-) No heavy mods and street tires for both.

I think the Porschephiles who have outrun Vipers on track may have had a less experienced driver at the helm of the Viper.

And weight? I do lament the pork on the Viper, with about 350 lb more than the latest 911 variant. That does hurt the handling and braking, although it is mostly overcome with ridiculous steamroller tires and the '01 brake bias/rear caliper/ABS change for the '01 Viper. But step up to the 911TT and OINK! That thing may outweigh the Viper (about 1600 kg/3500 lb to the Viper's 3460 lb). And about $50K more than a GTS to run about even? The 911TT better be so refined it can run on crude oil!

It really comes down to subjective factors. In the $70K range do you like sophistication, heritage (although the Viper's getting some of that), relatively mainstream and conservative styling, and smoothness, or do you want an outrageous-looking, big-everything, blazingly fast and rough experience?

Silly comments about a car being "plastic" or "relatively common" just reveal rabid irrationality. They are both fine cars, but I think I'll take my tacky, unrefined and crude Viper.

Lucky for Porsche owners, my offensive car will fade in you view as I leave you behind ;-)

George 911-V8

Keith you might stomp up a 993 non turbo mule and maybe a turbo but so have I. I saw SW drill a new a$$ in all the vipers and remember he has a small block not a truck motor. I have I would say a little hotter motor than SW with a lot more of the giggle gas than him. I would love to take you up on this one at your house or mine only one problem I'm not stock and I have the best porsche race parts money can buy on the car from my brakes to the Ruf suspension. I can say this you will not abuse my car on the track like all the others.
<A HREF="http://pws.prserv.net/4play/911chevy/index.html" TARGET=_blank>
SWAMP MONSTER IF YOU WANT SOME COME AND GET SOME</A>

Greg Fishman

I own a 993 race car and have been also fortunate enough to drive a few Vipers including a ACR with a 600 Hennesey kit that dyno's at 502 at the rear wheel, what a ride. I took the owner for a spin (not literally) around VIR and at just 7/10ths it was damn fast. We hit close to 160 or so on the back straight. In my car I hit maybe 140-145, if I got a really good exit out of Oak tree.
Two things that I didn't like about the Viper. The pedal set up, and its size. My 993's pedals just feel better and are in the correct place, in the Viper the brake is where the clutch should be and the gas where the brake should be, if you have driven a Viper you will know what I mean. Immediately after getting out of his car we got in mine and my car felt like a go-cart in comparision. Faster through turns but much slower on the straights.
After instructing at Viper events over the last couple years I understand the reason why they have such a following. The first time I rode in one as we were accelerating down the front straight I had a smile from ear to ear. In my porsche you don't get the smile until the twisties.

Greg

Anir

Hey Greg, I looking forward to seeing the videos from VIR. Wish I could have been there.

I'm starting to feel like I need to grow more hair on my chest, buy a very large gold chain, and roughen up my dialogue a few notches to hang with some of the Viper guys posting here. Notwithstanding George and Carlos, the people on this board spend very little energy talking about kicking each other's asses. And it's not that we don't love track days and competitive racing.

Maybe, I am a "yuppie".

SeanD

At least Porsche doesn't make mini-vans.... yet.


Ah well. I guess we all agree to disagree. That's why "they" own Vipers and "we" own 993s.

It would be great to hold an event in the near future at a track that would pull our brother Viper owners in close and... hell.. we're all car people so that can't be such a bad thing?

I keep looking at USA Today and Wall Street Journal's unemployment and job cut articles and laugh when I read threads like this. Can you imagine how stupid we come off to someone who can't even afford to pay for a decent meal.

Sean... lucky to be able to post here.

SoCal Rebell

I gotta disagree with that, I take my 100 lb. German Shepard out for rides all the time. I put a fender skirt on my passanger door, he jumps in the passanger seat puts his paws on the door and looks out. He loves it, not to mention the looks I get from people.

Anir

Hey Sean,

I believe Greg, EJ, and John Huang had a great time mixing it up with the Vipers at VIR a couple of weeks ago.

Carlos

I admit that to some this position may appear overly aggressive. But here it is. When I've been at the races the "show & shine" competition is for spectators. Nothing wrong with that. Track tours are fine too. But the ENTIRE aspect of racing is this simple, who's the fastest! But somehow the competitiveness involved in every form of motor sports in looked down on by an amazing number of Porscheophiles. If you want to tour, that’s fine go to the park. If you want to compare the gleam from Zaino to the depth of a Blitz shine, nothing wrong with that. But that’s not the kind of “competition” that made Porsche great! . And they don't build racetracks for track tours. There is also nothing wrong with telling someone who is talking about whatever superior qualities of their car to “drag that s.o.b. out and show me.” If it weren’t for racing, Porsche would still be building 356 motors.

Let me say here and now that I am totally confused by the mentality that spends tens of thousands of dollars to enhance the performance of a car knowing that they will never test it’s capabilities. To me that is reminiscent of Jimmy Swaggert, the preacher who would go spend money on hookers then do nothing to them. At this point the capabilities of the car become esoteric, you might as well be collecting stamps or baseball cards. Nobody will ever challenge the owner of a Honus Wagner rookie card to “drag that s.o.b. out.” Faberge eggs might also be a good alternative collectable for those who see the challenge as spending more money than the next guy.

But it wasn’t the concept of out spending the competition that drove Porsche to become one of the greatest names in motor sports. It was the desire to WHIP SOME ***. If that concept is too disturbing, buy a Citroen. Citroen, like the rest of the French, have never beaten anybody at anything. But I for one am glad that George took up the challenge from the Viper guys. If my 928 had another 200 HP, I’d be lighting them up too (that Vortec blower is starting to look real good).

Criticizing their interior material or accusing them of being somehow less sophisticated makes us look like wimps and snobs. I for one am a lot more comfortable with the” drag that s.o.b.” out approach. And I think Dr. Porsche would have been too.


PS I haven't seen the Viper guys lining up to jump on George.

Randall G.

Well, I guess I could have been more specific. What I really meant is there is no place for the dog to ride when you have a passenger, like a wife or girlfriend. The wife & I often take the dog with us on roadtrips--for example, up the coast. Can't do that in a Viper.

The 911's rear deck (with the seats down) is one reason why I own my 911 and not another very desirable sportscar, such as a Viper, Lotus, Boxster, NSX, M Roaster, etc. It may sound funny, but I've got to have room for both the wife & dog.

I bet the dog loves riding in your Viper, and people surely get a big kick of seeing him in the car! I know I would.