Arthur Del Mundo

Just spoke with Todd Knighten from Protomotive in So Cali (no affiliation), and he said he can reprogram the 96 ECU's for standard non-aspirated applications. The cost would be $1595 total for the 96 models. That seems like a great deal considering new ECU's are about $1700 and then you would still need them reprogrammed. I think he said up to a 28 HP and 10% gain in torque from 3200 RPM to redline. Here is the link to the dyno chart:

<a href="http://www.netquest.net/~knighton/obd2na.html" target="_blank">http://www.netquest.net/~knighton/obd2na.html</a>

David in LA

By reputation Todd knows his stuff when it comes to turbo Porsches...not sure about his expertise in non-turbos. Reason I say that is that 28hp seems really high. I have a lot of respect for Protomotive and if I were to turbo my car I would either take it to Protomotive or to Ruf...my $0.02/

W/regards to an ECU they do come up on ebay from time to time (check the 993TT board as there was a post about an ECU that was mistakenly thought to be a TT but was actually a NA...went for a pretty good price).

David in LA

Arthur - here's the ECU I'm referring to. looks like it didn't meet reserve so if you're intersted you should contact the seller - perhaps arrange for him to send to Steve to inspect it as a condition of purchase.

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33596&item=2408234479&rd=1" target="_blank">ECU on eBay</a>

The 97/98 ECU can be flash programmed (old program erased and new program uploaded); I didn't think you could do this with the 96 ECU so I don't know how Todd is doing this...is it a piggy back chip?

Jeff 993TT

I used to have a protomotive ECU. It has the reporgrammed '96 model.

Eventually sold it becuase I didn't believe Todd's reputation. Although I don't have any information to back up my claim.

He was claiming 480 hp with just an ECU/Wastegate upgrade. I had both upgrades, but didn't feel like an extra 80hp.

Additionally, he didn't recommend getting an extra oil cooler for this extra boost/heat and that made me suspicious.

I decided not to push my luck and got rid of the whole setup.

Like I said, I have nothing more than gut feel to back up my claims, so if there are other happy protomotive customers out there, more power to them ( so to speak. )

JasonAndreas

Joel Reiser once mentioned that there was/is a software bug in the 993TT ECU that is good for 50hp. Others seem to have no problems modifying an ECU for 30hp so it doesn't seem that implausible that Protomotive was able to find 80hp on their engine dyno.

Jeff 993TT

It's probably different for TT's versus NA cars.

Its super easy to get extra HP from an ECU upgrade in a TT. That is not the problem. But you have to upgrade the systems around the engine to handle it too if you are concerned about reliability.

I probably would have recommended the following in addition to the ecu/wastegate upgrade:
a) upgraded turbos
b) upgraded oil cooler
c) upgraded intercooler

Even the 450 HP powerkit upgrade from Porsche had new turbos, new ecu and an oil cooler.

Other tuners such as Steve Weiner, FVD, etc recommend upgrading the subsystems in addition to the ECU as well.

JasonAndreas

Did you notice any difference in oil temperature after you switched the ECU unit back to your original unit?

dr kenneth e garchow

wow, 28 hp for $1,600, ill take it.

i was @ porsche shop today, and they had a 993 motor that had 10K worth of upgrades(3.8, rs cams, and re-maping)and it made 310 hp, and the shop was happy!!

so if ecu numbers hold up what a deal!!!

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Art:

I'm no expert but,.......LOL,....I'd be jumping up & down spitting rubber nickels if I found a way to get even close to 28 HP with an ECU upgrade,.... Even race gas will not get close,..............

Typically, its anywhere from 12-18 HP for pump gas and compatible mapping. If I thought 25-28 HP was remotely possible with ANY kind of gasolines, I'd go back to the dyno with the current maps and try again.

Fingers crossed, I am;

Arthur Del Mundo

Steve - I was just looking around the net, and heard some things about Todd Knighten, so I decided to check it out. I also did manage to find a 993 97 ECU (paid $450) which I will hopefully get early next week (checked with GIAC USA and they said it was reprogrammable). I'll probably just send it to you Steve and go the "safe" route which most people are happy with. Plus I'll still have my stock ECU in case I decide to sell the car, I can always put it back in. Or maybe I'll send that 96 ECU to Protomotive and compare both reprogrammed ECU's and get a fair comparison of both on a dyno. But even at that point, that would be several thousands of dollars of reprogramming costs, so i dunno if that's actually possible given my budget constraints.

TB993tt

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JasonAndreas:
<strong>Joel Reiser once mentioned that there was/is a software bug in the 993TT ECU that is good for 50hp. Others seem to have no problems modifying an ECU for 30hp so it doesn't seem that implausible that Protomotive was able to find 80hp on their engine dyno.</strong>[/QUOTe
The stock turbos will not run to more than 440PS peak.
Protomotive never ran that mod on their engine dyno, the power claims were based on their experience (educated guesswork <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

Randall G.

Irrespective of optimistic Hp claims, I'll put in some good words for Todd Knighton. Quite an impressive guy, speaks like an engineer, works like a master mechanic.

If it wasn't for Todd, my 993 engine installation may still be unsorted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . The shop that installed the 993 engine in my car--very well respected, and did an outstanding job otherwise--struggled mightily and repeatedly with the O2 sensor placement. Finally drove the car (coughing and wheezing like hell) to Todd (about 70 miles from my house), who sorted it out quite nicely, no return trip required. Oddly enough, I spoke to a person back east that has a VRAM (multi-O2 sensor) engine in his 1990 C4, and he ultimately wound up taking his car to Protomotive's affiliate in N.J. for final sorting. As I understand it, it was Todd who finally sorted his installation via telecon.

Other things he's done for my car:

-Removed the drive-block so the brain would work in my '91.
-Installed his performance software.
-"Coded out" a harmless, but annoying, "misfire" CE that would come on for a few hours every few weeks. The code can still be read, but the light doesn't come on.
-Raised the idle speed to eradicate rare stalling. After the engine was installed, it was hovering down around 730 RPM.

He also saved me about $400 when he encouraged me (he practically hit me over the head with a stick ) not to waste my money replacing the slave and master cylinders, back when I had my sticking-in-gear problem--that they couldn't possibly be the source of the problem, all symptoms considered.

TB993tt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Randall G.:
<strong>Irrespective of optimistic Hp claims, I'll put in some good words for Todd Knighton.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Other than those 480hp 993tt figures I have a very high regard for Todd and what he does -he is a knowledgable talented engineer with passion about what he does. And he makes FAST 911s <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
And by the way the title of this thread - yes he can re program '96 ECUs -he did mine back in '98

Arthur Del Mundo

As far as you guys go, are there anyone here that has a Naturally Aspirated car that has been happy with Todd's work? Anyone dyno the car to get their own results?

Randall G.

Hey Art,

Yes, I have Todd's performance software. Works great. However, it was installed when the drive-block was removed, before the engine installation was complete. So, I have no before/after reference. Also, I've never had the car dyno'ed.