Got my car back today.
08-12-2004, 02:15 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by Laura
...besides our normal busy service business. And then there's the race business on the side.
Kim - thanks for the photo. I remember now when I saw that on Gerts site wondering what it was for...Now I know.
So, what's the concensus about replacing this little bastard with the motor in the car ?? I assume the intake has to come off, right ?
08-12-2004, 02:24 PM
#47
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Pram, The TT has a different valve. It is a combination air regular valve 996.113.257.70 cost is about $170. With the low mileage on your car (about 32K?) we would suggest changing it out. It certainly can't hurt, and we believe it is good preventive maintenance.
FWIW the part that is on the 993 non turbo, is also used on the boxsters and 996's, which also sets off CEL's. Those cars have an add'l valve that is replaced in conjunction with the above. We do not know the percentage of cars that will be affected with this problem, and many independents may not see any because of their volume for these specific cars. We have a very high volume of the 993, 996 and 986, so this problem has surfaced frequently. We've had to do some homework to find a solution, and feel we have made progress. The dealer will be fairly closemouthed about the problem or even agree is it a problem, because Secondary air injection problem causes CEL's and faults which results in a problem passing emissions.
FWIW the part that is on the 993 non turbo, is also used on the boxsters and 996's, which also sets off CEL's. Those cars have an add'l valve that is replaced in conjunction with the above. We do not know the percentage of cars that will be affected with this problem, and many independents may not see any because of their volume for these specific cars. We have a very high volume of the 993, 996 and 986, so this problem has surfaced frequently. We've had to do some homework to find a solution, and feel we have made progress. The dealer will be fairly closemouthed about the problem or even agree is it a problem, because Secondary air injection problem causes CEL's and faults which results in a problem passing emissions.
08-12-2004, 02:34 PM
#49
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Laura, many have touched peripherally on the issue. Let's see if we can't clarify here. Is it your opinion that:
1) replacement of this valve at some regular interval (15k or 30k), and
2) flush as performed at your shop to rid of any carbon build-up to date
may be the Holy Grail solution to this much talked about problem?
Thanks immeasurably in advance.
1) replacement of this valve at some regular interval (15k or 30k), and
2) flush as performed at your shop to rid of any carbon build-up to date
may be the Holy Grail solution to this much talked about problem?
Thanks immeasurably in advance.
08-12-2004, 03:08 PM
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Not trying to pile on with the questions but is the "flush" for the carbon buildup the same as described by Joel Reiser at the PCA site? If not, could you elaborate?
08-12-2004, 05:31 PM
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I can only cover the basics and any further questions can and should be answered by Mark, my mentor. Feel free to call for info.
In our humble opinion and our advice to our customers is:
the secondary air injection problem becomes a problem when you are trying to pass the CA emissions test. There are varying degrees of build up and it affects diagnostics differently.
When we do a major service we run diagnostic codes with the PST. (NO CEL at this time) We would find faults for secondary air injection, sometimes 1 bank, sometimes both. Cleared codes, car was happy. go on your merry way. (Fault codes can be stores in the computer without ever triggering a CEL) Car would pass emissions.
CEL light appears, run diagnostics, fault codes appear. Clear CEL and codes, Car may run 1000 or 100 or 10 miles before codes appear.
Codes will reappear sooner but the CEL could take a longer period to activate, again depending on the severity. You may be able to get passed emissions during this time if the fault codes have not set. The PST has been a good tool in helping us thru this process by giving us the complete picture.
In 2004 we have noticed that you cannot get the car passed emmissions because the state is also testing the cylce flags (readiness codes) to see if the DTC’s have been recently reset or the entire computer reset (battry disconnect).
Then you get to the point where the CEL will activate before the car is out of the parking lot and something has to be done. And try to make make it economical. That's where the flush came about. BUT.....
we do advise the customer to take into account the mileage and perform an inspection on the valves to determine if a valve job is in the near future. If it is, the clogged ports would be cleared during the cleaning of the heads, and included in the price. It all depends on your specific need and/or desire.
At this time we have no hard data to prove that changing the check valve will prevent build up in the future because our customers have not put on any considerable mileage since the change, but common sense shows this to be a probable path.
We have found on the early 986’s that a simple failure of the check valve and subsequent failure of the secondary air control valve will cause a secoindary air injection DTC without any plugged ports. With out getting anyone’s hopes up, this may apply to a small number of low mileage 993’s although we have not found this yet in our experience.
This is the rough and tumble version, pretty basic, anything too much more technical I’ll have to hand it to the experts. (who are really busy!)
In our humble opinion and our advice to our customers is:
the secondary air injection problem becomes a problem when you are trying to pass the CA emissions test. There are varying degrees of build up and it affects diagnostics differently.
When we do a major service we run diagnostic codes with the PST. (NO CEL at this time) We would find faults for secondary air injection, sometimes 1 bank, sometimes both. Cleared codes, car was happy. go on your merry way. (Fault codes can be stores in the computer without ever triggering a CEL) Car would pass emissions.
CEL light appears, run diagnostics, fault codes appear. Clear CEL and codes, Car may run 1000 or 100 or 10 miles before codes appear.
Codes will reappear sooner but the CEL could take a longer period to activate, again depending on the severity. You may be able to get passed emissions during this time if the fault codes have not set. The PST has been a good tool in helping us thru this process by giving us the complete picture.
In 2004 we have noticed that you cannot get the car passed emmissions because the state is also testing the cylce flags (readiness codes) to see if the DTC’s have been recently reset or the entire computer reset (battry disconnect).
Then you get to the point where the CEL will activate before the car is out of the parking lot and something has to be done. And try to make make it economical. That's where the flush came about. BUT.....
we do advise the customer to take into account the mileage and perform an inspection on the valves to determine if a valve job is in the near future. If it is, the clogged ports would be cleared during the cleaning of the heads, and included in the price. It all depends on your specific need and/or desire.
At this time we have no hard data to prove that changing the check valve will prevent build up in the future because our customers have not put on any considerable mileage since the change, but common sense shows this to be a probable path.
We have found on the early 986’s that a simple failure of the check valve and subsequent failure of the secondary air control valve will cause a secoindary air injection DTC without any plugged ports. With out getting anyone’s hopes up, this may apply to a small number of low mileage 993’s although we have not found this yet in our experience.
This is the rough and tumble version, pretty basic, anything too much more technical I’ll have to hand it to the experts. (who are really busy!)
, but can this part be replaced w/o the engine coming out? 
08-12-2004, 06:02 PM
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as a side note, i don't think you can simply remove the plumbing and the valve for two reasons:
1) the air pump would be useless and would not pass CA smog.
2) it wouldn't necessarily fix the buildup problem.
i do like the idea of weight loss though...
1) the air pump would be useless and would not pass CA smog.
2) it wouldn't necessarily fix the buildup problem.
i do like the idea of weight loss though...
08-12-2004, 07:17 PM
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David in Chicago and Aarwin
You must remove the airbox, our guys use a tool they made, it is a thin 27mm offset crows foot wrench (their description?) , little bit of difficulty because it its so tight in there, R/R. Should take less than an hour, sometimes a bit longer if it is being stubborn loosening up.
You must remove the airbox, our guys use a tool they made, it is a thin 27mm offset crows foot wrench (their description?) , little bit of difficulty because it its so tight in there, R/R. Should take less than an hour, sometimes a bit longer if it is being stubborn loosening up.
08-12-2004, 07:23 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Laura
David in Chicago and Aarwin
You must remove the airbox, our guys use a tool they made, it is a thin 27mm offset crows foot wrench (their description?) , little bit of difficulty because it its so tight in there, R/R. Should take less than an hour, sometimes a bit longer if it is being stubborn loosening up.
You must remove the airbox, our guys use a tool they made, it is a thin 27mm offset crows foot wrench (their description?) , little bit of difficulty because it its so tight in there, R/R. Should take less than an hour, sometimes a bit longer if it is being stubborn loosening up.
08-13-2004, 06:50 AM
#58
Laura wrote:
"FWIW the part that is on the 993 non turbo, is also used on the boxsters and 996's, which also sets off CEL's."
For information, ROW 996 and Boxsters also have this part.
"FWIW the part that is on the 993 non turbo, is also used on the boxsters and 996's, which also sets off CEL's."
For information, ROW 996 and Boxsters also have this part.
10-12-2004, 12:58 AM
#59
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I just posted a DIY article on cleaning the SAI ports and changing the SAI check valve. Look at pictures 7, 8, and 9 for the special wrench I made to remove the check valve.
