Rennlist Track Event and Dinner at Watkins Glen
08-12-2004, 01:19 PM
#16
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Skip- A Hawaiian vacation is a valid excuse for sure. Hopefully we can get together in the spring.
Rob- Send me an e-mail at JFord66@aol.com and I will forward an application. There will be a limited number of instructors available on a first come first serve basis at the track. I am sure that it won't be a problem lining on up. Thanks.
Jamie
Rob- Send me an e-mail at JFord66@aol.com and I will forward an application. There will be a limited number of instructors available on a first come first serve basis at the track. I am sure that it won't be a problem lining on up. Thanks.
Jamie
08-17-2004, 09:23 PM
#17
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I will definately try to get to Watkins next year and let you know when I come up that direction.
Everyone else have a great time and enjoy - what a wonderful event.
-Skip
Everyone else have a great time and enjoy - what a wonderful event.
-Skip
08-21-2004, 01:55 PM
#18
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If your having a "Rennlist" event, then it should be for all of the Rennlisters.
Excluding some is discrimination and, IMHO, not in the spirit of this board.
Excluding some is discrimination and, IMHO, not in the spirit of this board.
08-22-2004, 10:45 PM
#19
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How is Jamie "excluding" some? He has invited those Rennlisters with no/limited on-track experience to join the group for spectating, lunch parade laps, and dinner. He has to consider the safety of all participants.
Jamie is putting his financial *** on the line by renting the track for 2 days---this is coming out of his own pocket. He is hoping to break even on this event without charging an insane registration fee.
"Discrimination"? C'mon now, you have got to be kidding. If this is so problematic and "not in the spirit of this board", sack up and rent out Watkins Glen on your own.
Jamie is putting his financial *** on the line by renting the track for 2 days---this is coming out of his own pocket. He is hoping to break even on this event without charging an insane registration fee.
"Discrimination"? C'mon now, you have got to be kidding. If this is so problematic and "not in the spirit of this board", sack up and rent out Watkins Glen on your own.
08-23-2004, 08:26 PM
#20
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A "Rennlist" event is a Rennlist event
Maybe it should be a "Jamie"event.
Do you even know the meaning of "discrimination"? If one is excluded from anything it's discrimination and I, for one, don't like it....
Maybe it should be a "Jamie"event.
Do you even know the meaning of "discrimination"? If one is excluded from anything it's discrimination and I, for one, don't like it....
08-23-2004, 10:30 PM
#21
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Stay home then. As a minority, I do in fact know the meaning of discrimination. People with sour-*** attitudes such as yourself should not complain. Really want to go? Get >10 DEs in before this event so you won't be a moving chicane/accident waiting to happen.
08-24-2004, 11:28 AM
#22
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GJ,
I don't know who you are but you've got some nerve making the accusations and statements above without knowing who Jamie Ford is.
Personally, Jamie is one of the most unselfish guys I know. Here's someone who goes out of his way to please others. He's organized at least two group buys (jackstands & jacks), and now does essentially a "group buy" for the Glen. Jamie was kind enough to pick my jackstands and jack on my behalf (on two separate trips) and even delivered the jackstands to me since he was up in Philly anyway. Anyone else here who's met Jamie, or known him via e-mail and Rennlist would most likely back my statements up.
His only comments re: novices were focused on:
a. safety of others on the track. The last thing I want is Mr. Hotshot who thinks he's da s**t and eager to turn a track event into a race event.
b. the experience of the "novice" him/herself. It's no fun fumbling around the track by yourself, and the Glen can be an intimidating track that can really bite back
So, my advice to you is to go stuff your comments elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned, you should be the only person on the "discrimination" list.
Usually I don't get emotionally charged up like this on rennlist (I stay out of the other public feuds and flame wars) but you just attacked someone who I know is just an all-round great guy, without meeting the person!
And if you had some class, you should publicly apologize for those comments above...
I don't know who you are but you've got some nerve making the accusations and statements above without knowing who Jamie Ford is.
Personally, Jamie is one of the most unselfish guys I know. Here's someone who goes out of his way to please others. He's organized at least two group buys (jackstands & jacks), and now does essentially a "group buy" for the Glen. Jamie was kind enough to pick my jackstands and jack on my behalf (on two separate trips) and even delivered the jackstands to me since he was up in Philly anyway. Anyone else here who's met Jamie, or known him via e-mail and Rennlist would most likely back my statements up.
His only comments re: novices were focused on:
a. safety of others on the track. The last thing I want is Mr. Hotshot who thinks he's da s**t and eager to turn a track event into a race event.
b. the experience of the "novice" him/herself. It's no fun fumbling around the track by yourself, and the Glen can be an intimidating track that can really bite back
So, my advice to you is to go stuff your comments elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned, you should be the only person on the "discrimination" list.
Usually I don't get emotionally charged up like this on rennlist (I stay out of the other public feuds and flame wars) but you just attacked someone who I know is just an all-round great guy, without meeting the person!
And if you had some class, you should publicly apologize for those comments above...
08-24-2004, 11:49 PM
#23
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I'm with Rezal on this one. I've taken some heat on stuff that wasn't important but anyone who has been here for awhile knows Jamie and that he is, above all else, a real contributor. Discriminator, no way!! Hey, I've got a cab with no rollbar, so I can't even go to the prerequisite for the DEs in this region. 
Jamie's set up isn't discrimination, it is just the way this works. Jamie, if you can open it up to us loose cannons in the Spring count me in. Either way, thanks for another service to the board! 
Jamie's set up isn't discrimination, it is just the way this works. Jamie, if you can open it up to us loose cannons in the Spring count me in. Either way, thanks for another service to the board!
08-26-2004, 11:21 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by Rezal
the Glen can be an intimidating track that can really bite back
The Glen's not that bad. Maybe you need to learn how to hit the forgiving styrofoam. Ask me how I know. My golden horseshoe is available for rent. Works well on Sebring's concrete walls, too.
GJ,
Back off, pardner.
As Rezal and Joe have said, Jamie is a fantastic guy. The Glen is not cheap to rent and here he is laying out his money so Rennlist can play. It's in his interest to have as many people come to the event as possible, but logistics and money are preventing him from having as many instructors available as a regular PCA DE.
If you think Jamie's policy represents discrimination, then you should also take issue with various PCA regions' policies, too. How dare they make me bleed my brakes and use fresh fluid! Bastards. I have to have brake pads of a minimum thickness?! Preposterous! I can't afford to take the car to the shop so they must be discriminating against my economic status. I have to wear my seatbelt at the track?! They're discriminating against my desire to win a Darwin Award!! I'm a novice driver who needs instruction, but they won't allow me in the black group??!! Gosh, that clearly must be discrimination. Okay, if I can't get into black, then what about another color? Let's see, if I'm 1/4 American Indian, that means I should jump to the head of the class and move right on up to red! Wheeee, this discrimination stuff is fun, fun, fun!!
Like K964, I am a member of a minority group and can often smell the foul stench of bias and partiality for many miles. In this instance, however, the offending odor is not actually coming from Jamie...
You owe Jamie a huge apology. He's not trying to be a jerk nor is he being elitist. He wants to run a smooth, safe event and it's his prerogative to decide how he wishes to protect all drivers. Disclosure: I have spoken to and met Jamie numerous times, and think he's a cool guy.
Lucky for you that this issue is buried in this admin thread, so many Rennlisters won't see how unfairly Jamie is being treated....
08-26-2004, 01:04 PM
#25
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GJ,
I'm with Rezal, Mark, Joe, and K964. I don't like to get involved in these kinds of threads, but I too have met Jamie on multiple occasions and can tell you that he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. Be careful with your accusations...
When Jamie was just starting to plan this event we had a conversation and he definately wanted to make the event as open as possible, but there are limits in the real world when it comes to everything. With the event date (mid-week) there will be very few if any instructors there, so how can you have students/novices without instructors? Check out the ColorChange threads and you will understand the importance of instructors for novice drivers.
"Why can't we all just get along"...why is it that when things aren't exactly as you want them you claim discrimination...Why not take on the financial responsibility and organizational effort (PITA) and setup a track event yourself if you don't like how others have set it up instead of complaining.
I'm with Rezal, Mark, Joe, and K964. I don't like to get involved in these kinds of threads, but I too have met Jamie on multiple occasions and can tell you that he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. Be careful with your accusations...
When Jamie was just starting to plan this event we had a conversation and he definately wanted to make the event as open as possible, but there are limits in the real world when it comes to everything. With the event date (mid-week) there will be very few if any instructors there, so how can you have students/novices without instructors? Check out the ColorChange threads and you will understand the importance of instructors for novice drivers.
"Why can't we all just get along"...why is it that when things aren't exactly as you want them you claim discrimination...Why not take on the financial responsibility and organizational effort (PITA) and setup a track event yourself if you don't like how others have set it up instead of complaining.
08-26-2004, 01:10 PM
#26
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Guys,
I have been away from the board for a few days as I am in the last few weeks of the busy summer season (I run a small retail operation at the Jersey shore and go full bore the 60 days between the fourth of July and labor day). I want to apoligise to those who have e-mailed me for applications for the event, I should be getting out responses today and tommorow. The event is still wide open but will be limited to 111 cars. Thanks to everyone for thier patience.
As to GJ's coments regarding the qualifications for attendance.....As some of the other listers have stated, this is a not for profit event but more of a group buy of track time so to speak. I will be laying out the money for the event and will need to almost fill to break even. If I don't fill, it will be the most expensive track time I have ever purchased. There will be three run groups at the event, if I have a novice group that means an entire group has to be novices (37 cars) further, I would need another whole group of 37 instructors. This means that there are restrictions on 2/3 of all participants not to mention the added problem of price tiering for instructors vs. participants. It is much less risky to fill with intermediate and advanced drivers than to run it the other way. I wish I could have a beginer group, there are a few listers, Mike Cap and Andy in particular that I would love to have at the event. I have made the banquet available to all listers and I think anyone just showing up and hanging out at the track for the day would have a great time meeting other P-car owners and checking out their rides. If this goes well and I run another event down the road I would love to have a beginer group. There will be instructoin available on a first come first served basis for intermediate and advanced drivers at this event.
Thanks to all those that came to my defense, I really appreciate it.
Jamie
I have been away from the board for a few days as I am in the last few weeks of the busy summer season (I run a small retail operation at the Jersey shore and go full bore the 60 days between the fourth of July and labor day). I want to apoligise to those who have e-mailed me for applications for the event, I should be getting out responses today and tommorow. The event is still wide open but will be limited to 111 cars. Thanks to everyone for thier patience.
As to GJ's coments regarding the qualifications for attendance.....As some of the other listers have stated, this is a not for profit event but more of a group buy of track time so to speak. I will be laying out the money for the event and will need to almost fill to break even. If I don't fill, it will be the most expensive track time I have ever purchased. There will be three run groups at the event, if I have a novice group that means an entire group has to be novices (37 cars) further, I would need another whole group of 37 instructors. This means that there are restrictions on 2/3 of all participants not to mention the added problem of price tiering for instructors vs. participants. It is much less risky to fill with intermediate and advanced drivers than to run it the other way. I wish I could have a beginer group, there are a few listers, Mike Cap and Andy in particular that I would love to have at the event. I have made the banquet available to all listers and I think anyone just showing up and hanging out at the track for the day would have a great time meeting other P-car owners and checking out their rides. If this goes well and I run another event down the road I would love to have a beginer group. There will be instructoin available on a first come first served basis for intermediate and advanced drivers at this event.
Thanks to all those that came to my defense, I really appreciate it.
Jamie
08-31-2004, 12:16 PM
#27
Sounds like a great event !
Hey GJ - it's not discrimination if there are clearly defined requirements. You don't meet the requirements. If you are in Massachusetts, then you can sign up for D.E. at New Hampshire International Speedway on Oct 11th/12th - still openings in green run group. $220 for the two days with an instructor for all your runs (Four 20-min runs each day). See www.ncr-pca.org
Or, there's a one-day at Lime Rock in CT on Sept 9th - again, still openings in green.
I for one, have just 2 days of D.E. under my belt. I would not want to be on the track at the same time as more experienced drivers. It can be humbling to get out there, and when you think you are doing pretty well....... go work a corner and see the difference in speed, etc between the run groups.....Wow...
Give me another year or two, and I'll look forward to meeting the requirements for such an event !
Hey GJ - it's not discrimination if there are clearly defined requirements. You don't meet the requirements. If you are in Massachusetts, then you can sign up for D.E. at New Hampshire International Speedway on Oct 11th/12th - still openings in green run group. $220 for the two days with an instructor for all your runs (Four 20-min runs each day). See www.ncr-pca.org
Or, there's a one-day at Lime Rock in CT on Sept 9th - again, still openings in green.
I for one, have just 2 days of D.E. under my belt. I would not want to be on the track at the same time as more experienced drivers. It can be humbling to get out there, and when you think you are doing pretty well....... go work a corner and see the difference in speed, etc between the run groups.....Wow...
Give me another year or two, and I'll look forward to meeting the requirements for such an event !
09-01-2004, 09:42 PM
#28
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You guys are assuming I'm in the green run group..you know what assume stands for. Just goes to show where you all are on this issue.
So my last thought on this whole deal...
let the green guys clean your windshields on pit lane..that way you can really convince yourself that everyone has an equal opportunity that's billed as a "Rennlist" event....
So my last thought on this whole deal...
let the green guys clean your windshields on pit lane..that way you can really convince yourself that everyone has an equal opportunity that's billed as a "Rennlist" event....
Last edited by KINGSRULE; 09-02-2004 at 09:55 AM.
