99D3C2

It seems every vendor I talk to about exhaust for the 993 dogs GHL. The most common comment is "we have too many problems with them". Why is that? Is it simply a case of Fabspeed's marketing strategy which seems to dog everybody else or does GHL and B&B actually suck? I would like to know.

ceboyd

B&B build quality nowhere near as good as fabspeed..

99D3C2

What about GHL? What about GHL? What about GHL? No one ever has any answers about GHL. I have seen/heard from four sources on GHL. The GHL guys obviously say they are good quality. A guy here once stated they were good but did not elaborate. 2 vendors whose names I will not mention have stated they are no good. One(guess who) was a bit more vocal than the other. Does nobody have these? I mean they are a Rennlist sponsor, right? Does nobody here actually support the sponsors? I just want to know because quite frankly, product quailty included, Fabspeed has turned me off as a customer. Their seeming lack of desire to reward an exisiting Fabspeed customer with some sort of preferential treatment on a subsequent purchase of their products has made me decide to look elsewhere. Any help from owners who have DIRECTLY experienced substandard performance/service from either B&B or GHL would be entirely welcomed as I am trying to understand this Fabspeed Supremacy thing. Thanks!

David '96 993

I do not like my B&B's. Alot of resonance at 2500-2900rpm, and unfortunately that is the range I am at on the freeway for the most part.

I don't have any first hand experience with GHL.

Anir

993CD2,

I am very happy with my GHL muffler bypass pipes.

Martin S.

Once upon a time, your fellow Rennlisters were throwing verbal rocks at Joe Fabiani at Fab Speed. The chatter has diminished. It appears he has some great products.

I just saw a GHL muffler system for a 89 911 Turbo yesterday. It looked to be extremely well made.

I had B&B mufflers on my 993 car when I first bought it in late 2000. I originally thought they were Porsche mufflers; what did I know being a newby at the time. The resonance at about 3,000 RPM was incredible, too much for me. I didn't really notice too much until the initial romance of having the car had died down a bit. When traveling with wifey, we had ti develop our lip reading skills, not a good thing.

I called B&B and they said send the mufflers over and we'll check them out and implied if they were defective, they'd replace them. A few days later I get a call....B&B says that the left side muffler is different than the right side muffler, a different model. I replied, come on guys, they looked exactly the same when I took them off the car! B&B stone walled me and sent the mufflers back to me with a sorry pal, tough luck for you.

In the interim, I got a set of Robin Sun's RSR mufflers and had them installed. I sold the B&Bs off. I have done 0 business with B&B nor will I ever. Burn me once, shame on you...burn my twice, shame on me.

If you want GHL, order them with a writen money back guarantee. If you don't like them, send them back. Perhaps a local Rennlister has GHLs installed. Listen to them in and out of the car.

JasonAndreas

??????????

99D3C2

Well since they say their 1st gen. maxflow system (which I had) would not accept factory style tips(large ovals), I wanted their new system that supposedly would. The caveat(and "preferential treatment")...I wanted to buy just the mufflers with no tips. They would not do it even though at the time I was a current owner of their product and also happy with it. So that is my explanantionon that. They sell just the tips, but not just the mufflers. Go figure.

RJT

Here comes my .02.......
I had B&B on a previous 911 and nearly went deaf from the resonance. It sounded pretty hot though!

A couple of years ago, I bought a 97 C2S and wanted to do an exhaust upgrade. I bought a GHL. When I took it out of the box, I stared at it for an hour. It was a work of art. Polished to a mirror finish and the welds were done by a true craftsman. The fit was perfect. It took about a half hour to install each side. It was exactly the sound I was looking for......louder than stock, but not "race car" loud. And NO resonance.
I sold the car earlier this year and I removed the GHLs and re-installed the stock mufflers. I liked the GHLs enough to keep it for a future 993. The thing is, now we bought a narrow bodied 993 and the GHLs are for the wide body.
So.......If you are interested in a perfect condition set of GHL mufflers, PM me!

Robert

99D3C2

well my car is a narrow body also. So the GHLs had no resonance. I wish there I could get a ride in one with the GHLs to hear it. Thanks for the input.

adsc4s

I also have no problems with the GHL muffler bypasses on my TT. They are well built, look and sound great.

dp2boy

I've had B&B's for years now and no problems athough I haven't put that many hours on them ( car stays in the garage more than it should ). If I do notice any objectionable resonance then I realize that I'm not giving it enough throttle ! Really, I don't find the resonance objectionable and they sound great at WOT.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi:

Well,...you've asked a legitimate question but it has a complex answer,... May I offer some input?

First, sound level. This aspect of ANY exhaust is totally subjective and everyone's ears and tolerance levels are different. Its hard to get consensus on this. Just remember: "One person's tea is another person's poison" so I always advise my clients to listen before they buy.

Second,.....There are many well made exhausts available and some not so good. Don't accept (at face value) the claims of any vendor; do your research. Many so-called "facts" are wildly exaggerated in their quest to make a buck.

Third,......Product support is everything, IMHO. The manufacturer MUST stand behind their products and not everyone has done a proper job about this.

My experience:

1) Years ago B&B used to be OK, but no longer and we will not offer, nor install them anymore. I've removed far more than I've installed.

2) Brian @ GHL does a good job at trying to keep people happy and accomodate everyone's desires for a reasonable sound level and I like what he does.

3) Monty mufflers are exceptionally well made and have a lifetime warranty.

4) Robin's RSR mufflers are well,...superb. They might not be everyone's favorite, but they have no resonance and are not tiresome over time.

Ultimately, its an individual decision and everyone should listen and ride in cars so equipped before any money is spent. Invest a little time beforehand and you will save the labor of changing these around later on.

You can criticize Porsche for making the car too quiet for some tastes, but not for making a restrictive exhaust system,.... One must make many modifications for the OEM exhaust to become a liability.

Mark in Baltimore

Steve,

How do you feel about Mille Miglias or Fabspeeds? I bought a used set, now sold, from Randy M but never put them on. They looked well-constructed and had some pretty welds.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Mark:

Mille Miglias look OK to me although not quite as nice as Monty. They are a tad louder than Monty, too.

I really have to abstain on the Fabspeed part of your question,....