New to 993's - Realistic Max HP diff bolt-ons will get you -assume 95
08-16-2004, 08:37 PM
#46
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I had 9M in the UK remap the chip on 'the fly' in my first 993 and other than finding loads more mid range grunt also provided me with an extra 32bhp.
Unfortunately 4 days later an Audi TT had a blow out and totalled my car!!!! Have now just picked up a '96 C4 and this is on my list of mods.
William
Unfortunately 4 days later an Audi TT had a blow out and totalled my car!!!! Have now just picked up a '96 C4 and this is on my list of mods.
William
08-17-2004, 10:18 AM
#48
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Question, has anyone else done the reflash, headers/muffler, cams and a saw blade (or similar) upgrade on their 3.6 Vram? Steve W? Sounds like somebody should develop this into a nice powerkit if the numbers are repeatable.
08-17-2004, 12:10 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Tom W
Disclaimer: I'm biased! I have a LWF, short gearing, PSS-9s and RS-sways with a different chip in my 993. 
08-17-2004, 12:26 PM
#51
My 964 has also been extensively modded by 9M in the UK, and I have no affiliation whatsoever but can say that their work is pretty advanced. My car has Motec and needed mapping. After some driving on the road and 5-6 runs on the dyno only, the car produced 287rwhp and 289lb/ft at 106degF ambient temperature....Both I and 9M think that there is more to come but we need more dyno time...the new motor is a bit peakier though, with max torque around 5300rpms now - but it will rev to 7300+.
If you are willing to spend the money and more importantly have someone who know what they are doing, then you can get a lot out of these cars.
If you are willing to spend the money and more importantly have someone who know what they are doing, then you can get a lot out of these cars.
08-17-2004, 01:19 PM
#52
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Ooh good post Christer. Been reading through 9M's site and they've been doing some pretty amazing stuff with the 964 - and currently working on extending that research to the 993. Here's an interesting read bout their Motec unit:
http://www.9mracing.co.uk/html/modul...%20the%20magic
Mentions one big limitation to the injector size, at WOT they're essentially open all the time. Has anyone toyed with the idea of larger injectors, cams, and use of a re-flashed Porsche ECU to work with the larger injectors?
http://www.9mracing.co.uk/html/modul...%20the%20magic
Mentions one big limitation to the injector size, at WOT they're essentially open all the time. Has anyone toyed with the idea of larger injectors, cams, and use of a re-flashed Porsche ECU to work with the larger injectors?
08-17-2004, 04:42 PM
#53
Flatair
My car has the bigger injectors and all that, but I am not 100% sure of the answer re reflashing the DME in conjunction with them. You should really ask 9M, but I don't believe they put larger injectors on cars with standard DME's, I certainly have never heard this but don't know whether it is because the DME cannot take advantage of it or what...? My comments might be 964 exclusive of course...
On top of all this, I should also add that 9M have developed advanced mapping for a basic Motec conversion (3.6 with standard internals) and a Motec +1 package which uses I think 288 cams and uprated valve gear with 964 intake and standard exhaust (decatted of course). The reason why I say this is not to advertise, but merely to point out that mapping the Motec can take time as my car is using 3.8 Cup p&c's, 310 cams, carillo rods, larger injectors, 993 intake, and GHL full exhaust system and this is a very different setup to anything they have done - I always have to do things my way...
So my engine is basically very much the same as Colin's own 3.8 993 Clubsport (which develops close to 400fwhp!) except for his individual throttlebody setup, and so we expected somewhat more from mine. However, because we don't even know whether the GHL exhaust is any good for this configuration (it was great on standard car, added 17rwhp!), or what the effects it is having in conjunction with the different intake, and all the other variables - we shall be spending some further time on the dyno (we haven't even done partial throttle settings yet) and maybe even experimenting with different exhausts etc.
I also don't know how 106degF affects the power output of an engine, so 287rwhp may or may not be good at this stage in the project. Certainly the car flies above 3500rpm all the way up to 7300. Interestingly, another Rennlister posted that the dyno used on mine actually posted a 996 at 297fwhp on the same day I believe so it may be the heat affects it more than I realise....? Does anyone know what the difference is between say 106degF and 75?
Anyway, hope that is interesting - I am always looking to learn something new myself. The problem with me is that I generally have to learn them the hard way (read expensive)
My car has the bigger injectors and all that, but I am not 100% sure of the answer re reflashing the DME in conjunction with them. You should really ask 9M, but I don't believe they put larger injectors on cars with standard DME's, I certainly have never heard this but don't know whether it is because the DME cannot take advantage of it or what...? My comments might be 964 exclusive of course...
On top of all this, I should also add that 9M have developed advanced mapping for a basic Motec conversion (3.6 with standard internals) and a Motec +1 package which uses I think 288 cams and uprated valve gear with 964 intake and standard exhaust (decatted of course). The reason why I say this is not to advertise, but merely to point out that mapping the Motec can take time as my car is using 3.8 Cup p&c's, 310 cams, carillo rods, larger injectors, 993 intake, and GHL full exhaust system and this is a very different setup to anything they have done - I always have to do things my way...
So my engine is basically very much the same as Colin's own 3.8 993 Clubsport (which develops close to 400fwhp!) except for his individual throttlebody setup, and so we expected somewhat more from mine. However, because we don't even know whether the GHL exhaust is any good for this configuration (it was great on standard car, added 17rwhp!), or what the effects it is having in conjunction with the different intake, and all the other variables - we shall be spending some further time on the dyno (we haven't even done partial throttle settings yet) and maybe even experimenting with different exhausts etc.I also don't know how 106degF affects the power output of an engine, so 287rwhp may or may not be good at this stage in the project. Certainly the car flies above 3500rpm all the way up to 7300. Interestingly, another Rennlister posted that the dyno used on mine actually posted a 996 at 297fwhp on the same day I believe so it may be the heat affects it more than I realise....? Does anyone know what the difference is between say 106degF and 75?
Anyway, hope that is interesting - I am always looking to learn something new myself. The problem with me is that I generally have to learn them the hard way (read expensive)
08-17-2004, 05:16 PM
#54
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My car has the bigger injectors and all that, but I am not 100% sure of the answer re reflashing the DME in conjunction with them. You should really ask 9M, but I don't believe they put larger injectors on cars with standard DME's, I certainly have never heard this but don't know whether it is because the DME cannot take advantage of it or what...? My comments might be 964 exclusive of course...
I plan to contact them to at least get some more information about what they offere, and the current status of their 993 project
It's quite possible that the standard DME might impose limitations on injector control (either design constraints or limits on what the programmer can do). Also the 9M article mentions that the Motec unit can use the throttle itself to meter injector pulse, rather than the restrictive airflow meter.
On top of all this, I should also add that 9M have developed advanced mapping for a basic Motec conversion (3.6 with standard internals) and a Motec +1 package which uses I think 288 cams and uprated valve gear with 964 intake and standard exhaust (decatted of course). The reason why I say this is not to advertise, but merely to point out that mapping the Motec can take time as my car is using 3.8 Cup p&c's, 310 cams, carillo rods, larger injectors, 993 intake, and GHL full exhaust system and this is a very different setup to anything they have done - I always have to do things my way... So my engine is basically very much the same as Colin's own 3.8 993 Clubsport (which develops close to 400fwhp!) except for his individual throttlebody setup, and so we expected somewhat more from mine. However, because we don't even know whether the GHL exhaust is any good for this configuration (it was great on standard car, added 17rwhp!), or what the effects it is having in conjunction with the different intake, and all the other variables - we shall be spending some further time on the dyno (we haven't even done partial throttle settings yet) and maybe even experimenting with different exhausts etc.
Wow your car is starting to sound pretty ferocious.
I also don't know how 106degF affects the power output of an engine, so 287rwhp may or may not be good at this stage in the project. Certainly the car flies above 3500rpm all the way up to 7300. Interestingly, another Rennlister posted that the dyno used on mine actually posted a 996 at 297fwhp on the same day I believe so it may be the heat affects it more than I realise....? Does anyone know what the difference is between say 106degF and 75?
Heat will definitely affect dyno performance, sometimes you'll see some jaggies followed by a drop off on a dyno at the top end in a hot air situation - engine starts pinging and the knock sensor tells the engine control to start retarding timing. Not sure if/how the Motec handles this though. Either way, temp difference usually makes a *few* hp difference due to less dense air, but most hp loss due to temp correlates to pinging from heat.
Anyway, hope that is interesting - I am always looking to learn something new myself. The problem with me is that I generally have to learn them the hard way (read expensive)
We surely appreciate your 'pioneering' efforts Unfortunately I believe in many states here in the U.S. we might not get away with a Motec unit as we have emissions control here.
Brad
I plan to contact them to at least get some more information about what they offere, and the current status of their 993 project
It's quite possible that the standard DME might impose limitations on injector control (either design constraints or limits on what the programmer can do). Also the 9M article mentions that the Motec unit can use the throttle itself to meter injector pulse, rather than the restrictive airflow meter. On top of all this, I should also add that 9M have developed advanced mapping for a basic Motec conversion (3.6 with standard internals) and a Motec +1 package which uses I think 288 cams and uprated valve gear with 964 intake and standard exhaust (decatted of course). The reason why I say this is not to advertise, but merely to point out that mapping the Motec can take time as my car is using 3.8 Cup p&c's, 310 cams, carillo rods, larger injectors, 993 intake, and GHL full exhaust system and this is a very different setup to anything they have done - I always have to do things my way... So my engine is basically very much the same as Colin's own 3.8 993 Clubsport (which develops close to 400fwhp!) except for his individual throttlebody setup, and so we expected somewhat more from mine. However, because we don't even know whether the GHL exhaust is any good for this configuration (it was great on standard car, added 17rwhp!), or what the effects it is having in conjunction with the different intake, and all the other variables - we shall be spending some further time on the dyno (we haven't even done partial throttle settings yet) and maybe even experimenting with different exhausts etc.
Wow your car is starting to sound pretty ferocious.
I also don't know how 106degF affects the power output of an engine, so 287rwhp may or may not be good at this stage in the project. Certainly the car flies above 3500rpm all the way up to 7300. Interestingly, another Rennlister posted that the dyno used on mine actually posted a 996 at 297fwhp on the same day I believe so it may be the heat affects it more than I realise....? Does anyone know what the difference is between say 106degF and 75?
Heat will definitely affect dyno performance, sometimes you'll see some jaggies followed by a drop off on a dyno at the top end in a hot air situation - engine starts pinging and the knock sensor tells the engine control to start retarding timing. Not sure if/how the Motec handles this though. Either way, temp difference usually makes a *few* hp difference due to less dense air, but most hp loss due to temp correlates to pinging from heat.
Anyway, hope that is interesting - I am always looking to learn something new myself. The problem with me is that I generally have to learn them the hard way (read expensive)
We surely appreciate your 'pioneering' efforts
Unfortunately I believe in many states here in the U.S. we might not get away with a Motec unit as we have emissions control here. Brad
08-17-2004, 05:20 PM
#55
Former Vendor
(Back a few replies)
Sure, the numbers are 98% repeatable - even for a 993 chassis. Ingredients:
Steve Weiner ECU optimized for 92 street & 92/100 octane @ 50/50 mix for track
B&B or GHL headers in 1.75" (NOT 1 7/8!) with 2 O2 bungs - other 2 'hang in the breeze' in the engine compartment
Flowmaster or near equivalent (which, I do not know?) muffler
Catalyst - NO. This could be a problem for a 993 owner.
RS 3.8 cams
Pillaged air box cover (what this adds I do not know - I HAD to do this to clear engine lid hinges on the SC
Sure, the numbers are 98% repeatable - even for a 993 chassis. Ingredients:
Steve Weiner ECU optimized for 92 street & 92/100 octane @ 50/50 mix for track
B&B or GHL headers in 1.75" (NOT 1 7/8!) with 2 O2 bungs - other 2 'hang in the breeze' in the engine compartment
Flowmaster or near equivalent (which, I do not know?) muffler
Catalyst - NO. This could be a problem for a 993 owner.
RS 3.8 cams
Pillaged air box cover (what this adds I do not know - I HAD to do this to clear engine lid hinges on the SC
08-17-2004, 05:28 PM
#57
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Auto authority chip
RSR mufflers
drill out your air box
Save the $3000 for repairs
Good luck
RSR mufflers
drill out your air box
Save the $3000 for repairs
Good luck
08-18-2004, 04:46 AM
#58
Brad
I forgot to mention that I also have over 20 hours of head porting, case flowing and barrel mooning included - the latter 2 to reduce 'windage' inside the engine. Needless to say I also have the Euro RS LWF and clutch as well as an LSD.....oh yeah and Euro RS brakes....I think its time to stop now... (I just have to figure out how to make my wheels stop rubbing occasionally under 'spirited' driving...
I'll post some more updates later in the year - at least on the 964 board - I wouldn't want to encroach on the 993 bandwidth.....
I forgot to mention that I also have over 20 hours of head porting, case flowing and barrel mooning included - the latter 2 to reduce 'windage' inside the engine. Needless to say I also have the Euro RS LWF and clutch as well as an LSD.....oh yeah and Euro RS brakes....I think its time to stop now...
(I just have to figure out how to make my wheels stop rubbing occasionally under 'spirited' driving... I'll post some more updates later in the year - at least on the 964 board - I wouldn't want to encroach on the 993 bandwidth.....
08-19-2004, 10:42 PM
#60
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Your mods
I will receive a 993RS gearbox tomorrow and hope to have it instlled by next week, along with a Motrosport LSD and a LWF. I have also installed PSS-9's, TRG bars and a tower brace. I am really looking forward to the trans and LWF. I guess I will do a Rennsport chip some day and an RSR exhaust (when Robin gets around to making one for me).
I could not resist responding to your thread. Nice mods!
Ron Cohn
I could not resist responding to your thread. Nice mods!
Ron Cohn
Originally Posted by Tom W
I agree with Mark and Boris.
I saw about 8 hp gain with a new chip. The difference was not noticeable.
There is a very big and noticeable difference if you go the route of LWF and short gears. I had many folk comment on how quick my car was compared to stock after going this route. I also think addition of PSS-9 or other improved suspension and adjustable sway bars will make a significant improvement in the car.
Disclaimer: I'm biased! I have a LWF, short gearing, PSS-9s and RS-sways with a different chip in my 993.
I saw about 8 hp gain with a new chip. The difference was not noticeable.
There is a very big and noticeable difference if you go the route of LWF and short gears. I had many folk comment on how quick my car was compared to stock after going this route. I also think addition of PSS-9 or other improved suspension and adjustable sway bars will make a significant improvement in the car.
Disclaimer: I'm biased! I have a LWF, short gearing, PSS-9s and RS-sways with a different chip in my 993.
