993RS

Totally agree with you Ray on running traffic lights.

OldGuy

Glen Ray the reasons your posts are overly simplistic is because this is whats happening:
Communities are putting these things in for one reason and one reason only REVENUE.
On top of this the copany selling the cameras are getting kickbacks, conflict of interest. these things are probably unconstitutional. Not only that in communities that are not getting the big revenue pots they were promised, they are shortening the yellows to catch more people and generate more revenue. If you guys want to give up to revenue generators go ahead but I live in the USA and these things are wrong period. Safety is not the issue and thats the problem.

993RS

Right on the revenue part. Over here they often place radar traps in places where the road is wide and steep and if you do not pay attention, easily exceed the speed limit.

Glen

OG, I am quite aware of this program, shortened yellows etc... I still feel my post is as valid as yours. There are plenty of situations where You must adjust according to the environment. When we get the tape back from Fox Sports I will show You my most recent adjustment at 150 mph in Nascar 2 at TMS. I did not get a bunch of warning of the 13 qts of synthetic from the car blowing the motor in front of me so I understand about surprise attacks. The point I am making is that if You slow down a bit when the green is stale, or just cover the brake, You can stop in time. In Your car with 2200 brake hp at your disposal i submit there is no excuse for You to ever get one of these weasel tickets. Scottsdale and Phoenix were first to pull this 5-7 yrs ago, Your old community Plano has been at it for awhile and there are many more for sure as pointed out by Brock Yates and many others over the last few years. Just adjust, we can all adjust. Its the same as seeing a person approaching the elevator out of the corner of your eye and holding the door instead of ignoring it. There is no situation with the exception of a life threatening emergency where we cant wait a bit or err on the side of caution. To be in a hurry is typically due to our own lack of planning or our own selfishness etc... Sorry You feel my post is simplistic, I feel it is imperative.

Ron_H

Keep thinking you can cover the brake and stop in time. Sure, Sure, whatever you say. The period of yellow duration is shortened to unrealistic periods, from 14 secs to 5-7 secs when the cameras are installed. Hey, the body shop benefits, the insurance adjusters benefits, the hospitals benefits when a rear ender results in a panic stop situation. I know. In Hawaii, the law states that you shall not be in the intersection when it turns red. In California, if you can get your front wheels into the intersection(past the crosswalk line) while the light is still yellow, you are free to proceed through the intersection. A couple of years ago, thinking "Hawaii", and seeing a yellow light in my 914/6 I stopped before the intersection. But a guy in a Golf behind me thinking "California" accelerated without braking and shortened my original 914/6 by a few feet!
$12,000 later the six is still not painted, my knee lacks some cartilage and I was told to give up driving stick shift cars (bought a 928 and will put a tiptronic into my six). Don't preach to me about red light cameras and "the law is the law" crap. If you worship Oliver North, I feel no compassion for you and your ****** mindset. The power and intent of the law is being abused by manufacturers of revenue producing devices and jurisdictions that are realizing a windfall of funds at our expense. And our safety. Read this carefully: YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP IN TIME and these people know it. Read this also carefully: IF you think the people who set the speed limits don't know that most people exceed them routinely and safely, YOU ARE DELUDED. It is an intentional and unsafe act that is designed to generate jobs, confusion, congestion, anger, accidents and revenue for the state. And if you think not exceeding the speed limit is safe while exceeding it is unsafe, I suspect you need a brain implant. These cars are routinely and safely driven at THREE TIMES the limit. Give it up. Wake the **** up. You are wrong. How often have you noticed how traffic slows when a Smokey is around, then speeds increase as soon as he disappears? What does that tell you? If they told you to stick your finger in your ear as you drive down the street you would do that also wouldn't you? I know you would. Well move out of the left lane please while you are doing it. Go back and read Old Guy's post. He's right.

Glen

So Ron, I take it You read my post differentiating 110 mph vs the 5-15 over. Not sure where Oliver North came in? These cars are driven 3 times the limit safely and routinely? How can that be? I can assure You that at 3 times the limit things happen quite quickly to be sure. I think if one is driven 3 times the limit routinely there is nothing more than blind luck keeping everyone safe. It will be difficult to adjust at those speeds. As I said before in a 75 mph zone almost everyone will be 5-15 over, myself included. In a 30 mph area the difference in speed can cause us to miss the little kid behind the parked car. Again I reiterate that I encourage all of us to get on a track and go as fast as we possibly can, when we go too fast there we take out our car, some Armco and one or two other cars that have also acknowledged the risk involved in a worst case scenario. It is much more fun to drop a wheel here and there on a road course at the ragged edge than blast down a freeway at 165 anyway. Very sorry to hear of your accident. I am just submitting that we could all notch it back on the "in a hurry" aspect, I respect Your right to disagree with anything, anywhere. But as You already pointed out what would I know, I apparently indicated somewhere in this thread that I worship Oliver North, have a specific mindset as a result, am deluded, need a brain implant, need to wake the asterisks up(not sure where they are sleeping?), and aspire to sticking my left finger in my ear (in lieu of a cell phone ?) while I drive. LOL

GabiOsz

Here in the UK people are so irritated by these cameras that some have started burning them down. They do this by wedging a tyre on the arm that holds the camera from the main post, dousing it with petrol and lighting it. The police have given up trying to replace them on sites that have been repeatedly burnt down.

Steve 96C4S

Yes, yes, yes, - that was my point, folks, that they are REDUCING the yellow time on these red light camera intersections to the point that you MIGHT just run a yellow due to the shortened time. This is a rip off, and if photoblocker spray fights the camera's ability to unfairly catch me running a yellow that's too short, then good for me! Also, to the gent that tried a photoblocker type competitor a few years ago and it didn't work, check out their website. The competitor's products don't seem to work as well AT ALL! Only the photoblocker product works this well, according to their intricate website. I know they're trying to sell me something - I'm not a moron. BUT, a policeman came on the radio talk show that I listened to the other night here in DC (AM630 Chris Core's show - I really respect him) and he tried it recently and did not get a ticket running the red light and noticing the camera go off with a flash. THAT'S why I'm considering it - actual testimonials from the local TV newscast and that local radio show I heard.

I'm not talking about rushing around running red lights on purpose. I AM a very careful, respectful driver - ESPECIALLY when I drive the 993. I try to set an example on the road. I don't want to be penalized though because they shortened the yellow light at one of these moneymaking intersections.

Good discussion. It's like we're at a bar hashing this thing out.
Steve

Mark in Baltimore

I agree, Ray. In Baltimore, cars will come flying through the intersection a good five seconds after perpedicular traffic has been given the green. It's breathtaking in the worst sort of way.

Anir

If speed kills, why is OK for the police to routinely drive 90 and 100 mph on the highway for miles and miles with no lights running, and I suspect no actual emergency to attend to?

While I certainly agree with some of Glen's and Ray's points about respecting your fellow man and being safe, I am very frightened when government forgets that it exists to serve its citizens, not tax them in newer and more creative ways.

Last point: this obvious piece of license plate snake oil reminds me of all the nonsense anti-aging creams and TV-advertised male enhancement and fat loss products gobbled up by gullible folks out there. A fool and their money...

993RS

Well you know Anir, "hope looms eternal"...

Ron_H

I don't recall mentioning anyone named "Glen" in my post.

Since you seem to be standing up:

The reference to Oliver North means his ****** attitude of blind allegiance to authority (more specifically, authoritarianism). He will do anything he is told to do, unquestioned. And so would many others who apparently like being dominated. Maybe they were beaten severely as children and grew to like it, preferring not to use their atrophied brain and remaining subservient, deferring responsibility to someone else. If you tell them there was a law just passed that required them to drive down the road with their finger in their ear, they would do it, and apparently so would Glen. They parrot whatever is barked at them believing it to be true. "Speed Kills", "Weaving in and out is reckless". Blah, blah, blah. But in practice no evidence exists to support these contentions. Where is it??

I must apologize for misleading everyone into believing that the design intent of Porsche, Ruf, and other high speed GT automobiles was to operate them that way. I’m sure that they were meant to be driven only to the supermarket and to church sedately and in fear of some horrendous accidental crash if a speed of 75 mph is exceeded. That’s why the accident rate on the autobahn sans limits is less than that in the US. That’s why they are so successful at professional rallying. And that’s why, when I was driving a Volkswagen in Germany I stayed the **** in the right lane, as Mercedes flew by at speeds that would put Americans in jail, ROUTINELY. Oh stupid me. What was I thinking. I’ll run down to the local police station and ask for a spanking. I deserve it don’t you think? (Sorry, I guess you don’t think).

I promise to write to Ferrari urging them to stop creating street cars capable of more than 75 mph because travelling at that speed or above ANYWHERE on the public street is dangerous. We will all take our Porsches in to be “redesigned” and rendered ineffective above that speed. Hey, that could be a job for the American car industry, eh? Provide an economic boost, eh? They’re proficient at it, though lately their products are dispelling that perception. Better return to the day when they just appeared to be “zoomy”. Can’t have them well designed for such performance, because everyone knows it is “unsafe”.

Get this:
1) The speed laws, if applied legally, would result in significantly higher limits, particularly on freeways and interstate highways;
2) The intent is to raise revenue by application of these laws, not to insure safety, no matter how contorted and rationalized justification is by authorities; they want you to break the law, they know you will break the law, and they know the accident rate will be greater because of it; (read the rules re: limit setting process);
3) The intent of red light cameras is revenue generation,and the makers of the cameras share in, and process the citations and revenue generated, citing false claims to justify their existence;
4) Authoritarian systems seek to prevent others from exercising independent thought and thereby take responsibility for their actions, which leads to inability to act decisively and effectively in derence to some unknown and unsupported “truth”; (you seem to fit the profile of such a “dutiful citizen” as did our hero Mr. North who lacked the mind to question much of anything so long as he could receive approval from a group of people perceived to be sufficiently large. Come to think of it, so did many other people in fascist regimes of the past.)
5) Adherence to the law is not going to insure your safety or that of anyone else. I know that may come as a shock to you. (Ya gots to take care of youself, fella! and watch out for the other guy.)
6) It is no accident that driver licensing laws are so laughable. And safety inspection laws. In this country. Or that enforcement of laws designed to aid flow of traffic and promote true safety is ignored. It is intentional and creates more victims and “criminals” for the system to process. The system is designed to penalize performance and ability and creativity and independent thought. It is designed to penalize superior engineering and personal responsibility. Oh happy day.
7) If the fear of an accident would justify suspension of all human endeavor to achieve higher levels of performance, we would terminate the space program. Once in awhile a rocket explodes and fails.
And once in awhile a most endowed and capable Formula One driver is killed when a tire blows and smashes his head against a barrier. And once in awhile GT cars fail and crash on the street. Should we ban street GT cars ? Or F-1 racing? Or open road racing at +200 mph in cars designed to be driven that way, ROUTINELY, on the street?

I hardly think so. And even if I did think so, it isn't going to happen, save a return to medieval Europe.

If you wish to better insure our safety while operating automobiles, do something about the drunk driving problem. It is not the driver who occasionally overindulges with a few too many beers that is the problem; it is the continual alcoholic who has gotten to the point of being unable to distinquish between sobriety and awareness and intoxication. That individual is a repeat offender and is let out to do it again and again until a disaster occurs. They really can’t tell whether or not they are sober, and climb into their car unable to function properly. I know. I have two strikes because I have escaped death by inches, literally, twice at the hands of perpetual drunks. ( the police knew the people and that they were drunks and in one case, had done it numerous times in the past. They arrest them, and the system lets them out again.). One was a Superior Court judge! Pardon me but as I was looking at my totalled 2 week old 911E , I was hard pressed to think of any description of this judge that resembled “superior”. And both times, I was in a car that was either stopped or travelling legally away from an intersection at approximately 10 mph. Hardly freeway speeds.

But, hey, Glen, you won’t believe me. Just do me a favor and STAY IN THE RIGHT LANE and save your trite preaching for the church. Evolution will occur despite your best efforts to stop it. And sh*t will happen, ....at any speed, and at any intersection; look around and you will see living proof. As for me, I’m out of here and won’t be coming back to this post. I choose to live.

STLPCA

Ron
From your posts, you seem to be a bitter guy, not to mention your lack of civility, bigotry & fallacious "logic," so a reasoned discussion doesn't seem likely. However, you are wrong on the law.

From a few minutes of net research both CA & HI prohibit entering an intersection on a red light & require those already in the intersection to proceed through. It is NOT illegal to already be in the intersection when the light turns red (excluding obstructing traffic - gridlock laws). Entering on a yellow is NOT illegal. This is consistent w/every other jurisdiction with which I'm familiar.

Have a nice day.

Glen

Ron, You will never have me in your way in the left lane. Since it appears You feel I know nothing about going fast ,I promise You wont have any trouble passing me on the track either...If You get anywhere near my bumper I will willingly let You by. Have a double nice day from me.
Sincerely,
Trite Preacher Glen

OldGuy

Glen I did not say your post wasnt valid (yes I did and I went back and changed it to simplistic) But here is the problem with your aurguement. for my TT I can stop but what about the guy behind me? also my 6000lb F150 cant stop worth a crap and if I check any of my mirrors as I always do and the light changes and I look back at the light no way can I stop that monster in time. Even with the ABS. So guess what happens? I get a ticket! thats the problem. So now in the interest of revenue for communities, I am faced with 2 delimas one, I can get rear ended in the Porsche Especailly if I am following me in my truck! Follow me? Or I can get a ticket in the F150. even at 40 mph in a 45 I can glance away from the light- look back and too late. No way can I slow in time for that light with that truck doing less than the posted limit. I know because its happened at least 10 times since I bought it last year in my little town. Thank God that they are only talking about putting em in here and havent done it. Our community does not need them since we are still so small but they are talking about it at city council for revenue purposes and we only have about 10 lights in our whole town.