Hank Cohn

993RS:

I think your discussion starter is a good one. I also think that you have done nearly everything, from a normally aspirated motor point of view that you can do to a STREET car that enhances power and torque without compromising drivability, emissions and noise regulations. There are numerous weight saving items that are left to do, but I am not sure that further development would be of significant benefit on the STREET to justify either the price or the effort.

I also think you are correct in your initial thought regarding motor tuning being a systemic effort rather than a series of unrelated modifications. It takes someone with experience and proper diagnostic tools to blend performance parts together to create a synergy that works well together and achieves the higher output we seek.

As so many others have said before me, significant power increases are only $50,000 away from the least expensive of our NA 993s in the form of a 993 TT. Unless you are just having fun, don’t spend $30,000 or more on a $45,000 car that you can only sell for $40,000 when you could just trade your car in on an $85,000 993 TT that increases power by 42% and will retain a significant amount of its value for years to come.

Hank

E. J. - 993 Alumni

[quote]Originally posted by Robert Linton:
<strong>Published figure for a Type 996 Cup Car is 380 BHP at 7000 RPM -- without further modificaton (which could increase HP over 400).</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bob,

I was talking about the 993 cup car.

In fact, from your first post in this thread:

[quote]by Robert:
<strong>Remember that Porsche obtained in excess of 400 HP from sprint (as opposed to long distance) versions of 993/964 engine -- and this was without Variowhatever! However, should you be interested in obtaining this type of horsepower (together with approximately 380 nm to 400 nm of torque), certain things must immediately and permanently go:</strong><hr></blockquote>

So you can see how I thought you were saying that a 993 cup car made 380 hp.

Not a problem, just showing where my confusion stemmed from. I know a 996 cup car makes 380 hp.

I agree with Hank that this is a good thread.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

E. J.

993RS

Robin,
The "sports muffler" is not offered in the Tequipment catalog. As far as I know, there is no official Porsche offering.

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by 993RS:
<strong>Martin,
Discussing hp increase with Bill in another thread, it seems that we have a pretty similar engine, yet he gets about 15 hp more, and I suspect it is due to exhaust system which is geared to racing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

RS,
Comparing your dyno results with someone elses, on a completely different dyno, is not even noteworthy. Now if you dyno'd the cars on the same dyno at the same time, you could have something there.

993RS

Greg,
You are right, of course. Just as no two engines are the same, no two dynos are the same.


BTW: some tuners really claim big gains with nothing more than chip tuning (no other mods), which I really find hard to believe. One, in Germany, claims 25 hp more for a non-variorm 993, 22 hp more for a varioram 993, 30 hp more for a 993RS. I just do not believe it!
Here is the link for the RS: <a href="http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenblatt-d/porsche911carrera-rs-993.html" target="_blank">hs-elektronik.com</a>

993RS

I also just remembered reading an article in the German car magazine "Sport Auto" concerning hp measurements. There conclusion (loosely translated): "who measures, measures nonsense". They reported about measurements on a German dynometer for an Audi RS4. First measurement: 431 hp! A second measurement: 395 hp! Audi had originally measured 371 hp!

Guess, I should have remembered before wondering about the different "measurements" done to Bill's and my car... <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

Greg Fishman

RS,
Turbo charged cars have more variablility on dyno runs, as the intercooler doesn't work very well when it doesn't have air moving over it, there are way to compensate for this.

Lots of variables that a tuner can use to his advantage (100 octane gas, weather, etc) that he may not disclose in his "30hp with my muffler" advertisement.

Greg

Martin S.

Thanks to Philip for the post...very informative thread, and to Bob Linton,E. J., Jim Richards,
Hank Cohn, Robin Sun, Greg Fishman.

The "buy a TT" is an option to pick up 100HP, but I am afraif if I were to do this, at least two (2) things would happen: A., I'll would be denied a top view of the motor, B., The temptation to modify the TT would rear its ugly head.

I have friends in SoCal with $20,000+ in these TT motors. They are cranking out 570 HP, one of these an ANDIAL prepared motor.

I am content with the 993 for now. By July I'll have the complete 993RS aero kit installed (I need the tail), I have the 993RS rear motor mounts with the front to come the next time the tranny comes out (I an wait for that one). The next step for me is the Cargraphics cooler.

My mod plan after that would be as follows: Front wheel (EVO Uprights) carriers and tie rods, coil overs with monoballs and adjustable sway bars, rear camber eccentric to get up to -3 30 degrees of camber, 993TT drive shafts, aluminium hood, 993RS door trim panels, Speedster seats, delete rear seats and add in RS carpet, lightweight side and rear glass.

That Technik 911 Carrera RS Service Information book has given me Father's Day, Birthday and Christmas presents to last for years.

I have to go...I think I'll ramble out to the garage and look at my car.

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by Martin:
<strong>
My mod plan after that would be as follows:....993TT drive shafts, ..... lightweight side and rear glass.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Martin,
What is different about the TT drive shafts? I use the stock ones and haven't had a problem.

The lightweight glass is not a bad idea but in terms of bang for the buck I think it is pretty far down the list.

Greg

Hank Cohn

Greg:

The TT drive shafts were standard on the RS and RSCS. They are capable of handling more torque than the stock ones can.

Hank

Greg Fishman

Thanks Hank,
Learn something new everyday My gut feeling then is that this is something you do when you have a problem (worn out axle) vs. a performance upgrade. Unless, of course, you wanted your car to be 100% RS spec'd. Do you agree?
Thanks
Greg

Robin 993DX

[quote]Originally posted by 993RS:
<strong>Robin,
The "sports muffler" is not offered in the Tequipment catalog. As far as I know, there is no official Porsche offering.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am still confused about the exhaust on your car. Please help me understand what it is as I am very interested in the specifications. Is it a Porsche part? If not, then who makes it and who can I contact to learn more details about it. I appreciate your time and help in this matter.

Hank Cohn

Greg:

I totally agree. I think I would even use stock half shafts if they were significantly cheaper when it came time to replace the worn ones. I have had great luck with stock half shafts in the past.

Hank

Greg Fishman

[quote]Originally posted by Hank Cohn:
<strong>

I think I would even use stock half shafts if they were significantly cheaper when it came time to replace the worn ones. I have had great luck with stock half shafts in the past.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have had great luck as well. A friend has run his C4S for almost five years on the track, three racing and except for repacking the bearing I don't think he has had any problems either.
Greg

Randall G.

Here's a relevant thread from the 911 board, back in December of 2001. Work your way down to near the bottom of the page, and you'll find some very interesting Steve W. observations/comments:

<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001376" target="_blank">3.6L Exhaust Thread</a>

My buddies over at Protomotive have also written the following on their website, with respect to N/A (presumably mostly stock) 993s:

"We tested without mufflers and only found a 3-4hp gain, but definitely not worth the noise, so beware of all the advertisements claiming massive power increases with mufflers only."