Eyal 951

if a 964 is vintage, then my car (1987) is ancient?
~Eyal

911

OG,

No problem. It will be great to have you out there and you can drive it anytime that I'm at Willow. That's the one thing I love about karting - the mechanical risk is minimum. Anyway, I'll write you an email before I go out.

Rich

gjb

OG,

I'll track down Skip in Boulder and have him chime in as he is about 5 minutes from me. His toy collection (race cars) has expanded beyond his garage..............

I'm in the essentially the same boat as you and with the recent uptick in TT prices, wondering at what point do you stop tracking it (Flamesuit on).

Let me know and give my regards to VB.

Grant

911

Eyal - what I meant by that was I had initially considered (and still am) racing with VARA or HSR-West with an older 911. I love the early '70s model, but became alarmed at how much those cars were!

If I could get a 964 for the same price, I'd go w/ the 964 but wouldn't run it in vintage racing. I'd return to the POC and race with them.

Rich

OldGuy

Eyal You cant get a 964 in the vintage class- all the ones I saw this
weekend were 70 and older. however teh 914s were running.

Thanks RIch I look forward to it

THanks Grant i would like just to see how Skip did it and if hes still married!
mabye he can educate both of us!!

Mark in Baltimore

OG,

I believe your TT would be in C class. You'll need a full two layer driver's suit, helmet, socks, battery kill switch, approved roll bar or cage, 5 or 6 point harnesses, two one-piece FIA seats, seat back brace if the driver's seat is not FIA approved, fire extinguisher, ummm, what else am I missing here?

Nice things to have are a Hot Lap timer, radios (cheap Motorola Talkabouts actually work), oil cooler, sticky tires such as Hoosiers or MPSC's, rain tires such as Toyo RA-1's, trailer, tow vehicle, tractor trailer, CDL driver, caterers, paddock vending machines, leggy massage therapist...it goes on.

If you've made any mods to the car, you should be sure they are not going to bump you up a class. Exhaust is free but no engine chips, bigger turbos, etc.

Before you can even think about racing, you have to go through the steps of DE to get signed off to solo. This means getting instruction in green and blue run groups, with an eventual solo in white or above. You'll need a minimum of twelve track days within 24 months. Your region's chief instructor will want to ride with you to do your club racing check-off ride. After that, you'll have to get a complete physical, get interviewed by the club racing coordinator to make sure you're not a fruitcake or trying to be the next Andrea DeCesaris (anyone remember him and why he's so notorious?) and then you'll be a rookie candidate. At this point, you'll enter a race and be required to do three practice starts, three practice races and one short, fun race. Upon completing this without any screw ups, you'll have your rookie license. The rookie status is dropped after doing four races withing two years.

I just went through all of this recently and did my first race at Watkins Glen this weekend. It was total thrill! I did a long write-up on the racing and drivers ed board. Click here if you want to read it.

BTW, I have no kids to save up for college and don't have a wife who wants a new kitchen every three years.

SkipSauls

OG,

I'm not married, and figured I'd go for the cup car while I had the chance to do so.

The cup car I bought is an '01 modified with a WCS engine (440 to 480HP, depending on who you ask), water-cooled brakes, full Motec, etc., etc., etc. It's a ridiculous car that would be expensive to build, but I bought it for less than a new '04 GT3 Cup, and less than most people are spending on '04 GT3s and new 996 TTs. It can run down pretty much anything short of a 600+HP lightweight GT-1 class car, and is an amazing and scary car to drive. The ongoing costs are high, but that's pretty much true for many race cars and is something to factor in to any planning.

I own a Spec Miata that is about 50% or so complete, with all of the parts waiting for someone to buy them and assemble them. I simply didn't have the time to build the car myself and frankly just didn't have the passion for it that I do for Porsches. Some friends of mine are having fun racing them, but my heart's not in it, and I don't want hobbies that frustrate or otherwise upset me.

Regarding the Radicals, I'm seriously considering one of those myself. I need to sell the 993 racecar and the Spec Miata, and may even sell the Boxster as I don't find much joy in driving it now. The Radicals look like a complete blast, and I'm considering one to enter in the 25 hours of Thunderhill in a couple of years with Grant and some other Colorado racers. I figure it would be more practical than the cup car for such a race, and certainly will be less painful to fix after all of the banging around that goes on in that race!

One thing about racing is that it has spoiled me for the street and for DEs. I'd rather race once a year than drive in multiple DEs, and I'd rather own one Porsche racecar than a few Porsches for the street/DEs. It's such an awesome rush that I can barely describe it, and I would encourage everyone who can to give it a try. PCA Club Racing is about as safe as it gets, and I think it's great fun to be around a nice bunch of racers and get to see such cool cars.

Rand

OG

I have an extra Porsche in my garage, an 88 911 coupe, that I thought about making into a track car. I pretty much feel the same way you do about getting out on the track, especially after last Sunday at Willow. I have been doing research on what it would take to make the 911 into a good track car and am finding out it is going to be major bucks. New suspension, seats, harnesses, roll cage, exhaust, wheels and tires, front bumber, than you have to preety much gut the interior, take out the air conditioning and anything else to get the weight down. This would all be done to a very clean 911 that I could probably sell for $16-17K. So..what I have decided to do is sell the 88 911 and look at getting back into the Club Ford class that runs with VARA. I was talking to a few of the Club Ford guys at Willow and they said you can get a competitive car for under $10k. You can run a full season with VARA, about 9-10 races and just have the engine done once a year. Of course thare are other expenses involved but you know racing is not cheap.

I am starting to do the research on the Club Ford class. Back when I used to race the Fords it was in SCCA, but from what I understand no one shows up for SCCA anymore they all run with VARA.

I will still get my Porsche fix with the 993 doing DE a couple of times a year, but I think to race, the Club Ford class is going to offer the most bang for the buck.

OldGuy

Skip your heart seems to be in the same place mine is-- PORSCHE
I want to (if I do race) race a Porsche.
I wish I had your resources ( I probably do but two boys, wife and some
real estate is sucking it out of me) Great stories
I absolutely love your cup car and I am kicking myslef for missing you
in Vegas.
Rand if you need some help I would love to come down and jsut help wrench till I can get enough resources to do it myself. would you be interested in splitting the cost on the 88 to get it to race ready condition? I am dreamin' but hey you gotta start somewhere
mark the Terp- I am gonna read your long racing post tonite!

mooty

racing porsche if fun but is big dollar. i only "track' one, don't race, at the rate i am going (more sane than kim), i esitmate about $10k per year for entry fee, tire, pad etc... add today's gas price, maybe $12k/year.

i am buying my 2nd SM soon.

Greg Fishman

You mean a "wreck me otter", don't you???

OldGuy

John whats a SM
Spec Miata??

Greg Fishman

Forget the Radical and get a Stohr if you want the top level Sports racer. Also I can't imagine that a Radical or any chain driven, motorcycle engined car would last for 25 hours. Maybe Sunday Driver will chime in but I don't think these cars would be a good choice for a 25 hour race.

kev

Very timely post as I'm torn with this same decision at the moment.

I don't race, but after two years of heavy DEing, I've discovered that tracking a Porsche is a very expensive hobby. I haven't added the #'s but I'd guesstimate that my annual O&M costs run about $4-$5k. This would include perishable stuff like tires, brakes and rotors but also the inevitable track damages that occur as you learn to go faster such as bent rims, wheel bearings, bumper covers. Throw in the endless upgrades that my impetuous nature falls victim too like suspensions, oil coolers, etc. and I'm easily spending $8 - $10k a year.

Now at that cost I figure I might as well get my full money's worth and go racing, but stuffing a $50k car with $30k in upgrades into a tire wall will bust my budget and probably get me divorced. I love tracking a 993 but I don't think it's economically feasible for me to race.

Personally, I've been looking at a SCCA open wheel spec series. The fun for me is all in the corners and a little open wheel car that can pull 2G's sounds like alot of fun. SRF's seem to be the cheapest deal out there, and with regional fields of 40+ cars for a race, that looks real appealling. Formula cars are more sexier and faster, about 15+ cars per race, and at about $25k for the car plus spares (Formula Mazda in this case) and lower body panel costs, this is probably where I'd like to enter.

So does anyone want to buy a RS spec track car?

chris walrod

Paul, look into the spec 944 racing class thats been growing and growing over the past year and a half. Mostly local to SoCal and Arizona. Cheap racing even that is an oxymoron

check out http://www.spec-944.com/

They race with NASA primarily, but POC events are shaping up as they are getting recognition as a real class

also see NASA spec 944 forum at http://www.nasaforums.com/viewforum....a053319503e492