Police lidar laser jammer / diffuser question
07-10-2002, 08:38 PM
#16
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Robin,
I'm not an engineer, but...
[quote] The lidar beam width at 250 meters is about 1 meter^2. The license plate (Colorado) has about .001 meter^2 of retroreflective paint. - 30 dB loss. They are illuminating the retroreflective paint with 25 milliWatts They are illuminating the retroreflective paint with 25 milliWatts <hr></blockquote>
What would happen if one were to reduce/eliminate that reflectivity? Perhaps hitting the plate with some fine sand paper? How about a flat or matte clear finish. It might even be possible to impregnate the finish with particles specifically sized to diffuse the appropriate wavelength.
Just some thoughts.
Chris
I'm not an engineer, but...
[quote] The lidar beam width at 250 meters is about 1 meter^2. The license plate (Colorado) has about .001 meter^2 of retroreflective paint. - 30 dB loss. They are illuminating the retroreflective paint with 25 milliWatts They are illuminating the retroreflective paint with 25 milliWatts <hr></blockquote>
What would happen if one were to reduce/eliminate that reflectivity? Perhaps hitting the plate with some fine sand paper? How about a flat or matte clear finish. It might even be possible to impregnate the finish with particles specifically sized to diffuse the appropriate wavelength.
Just some thoughts.
Chris
07-10-2002, 09:07 PM
#17
How about moving to a state that doesn't require front plates. Porsches are probably as stealthy a car as you will find as there are very few flat surfaces. 924's and 944's and of course the 930S (Flatnose) would be best because there are no headlights. I guess we now know why we'll be stuck with a front plate as that is the favorite aiming point.
07-10-2002, 09:18 PM
#18
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Georgia does not require a front lisence plate, but there are still plenty of the area in the front of a 993 that the laser gun can hit. I.E. front bumper, front headlights, etc.
FWIW, when I received my speeding ticket I was zapped from the rear. I assume either he got me from my rear license plate or the big Porsche reflective rear lens.
My idea for the placement of the Gallium laser was to place them across the rear reflective len and also a top of the rear license plate. And on the front I was thinging about installing them in the headlights and also inside of the front grill.
FWIW, when I received my speeding ticket I was zapped from the rear. I assume either he got me from my rear license plate or the big Porsche reflective rear lens.
My idea for the placement of the Gallium laser was to place them across the rear reflective len and also a top of the rear license plate. And on the front I was thinging about installing them in the headlights and also inside of the front grill.
07-10-2002, 09:29 PM
#19
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As I recall from the referenced Car & Driver lidar counter measures test from a few years ago, if the front plate is tilted a bit so it reflects down the effective lidar range is reduced.
Coincidently, my front license plate mount somehow got bent like that. It's odd, because if it happens while mounted to the car, it can be pulled out of the bumper. Go figure
Coincidently, my front license plate mount somehow got bent like that. It's odd, because if it happens while mounted to the car, it can be pulled out of the bumper. Go figure
07-10-2002, 11:12 PM
#21
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Robin,
This is not complicated at all.Your partial post:
Police lidar is 904 nanometers, 5 nanosecond pulses of 25 Watt instantaneous power delivered into a 4 milliradian cone angle at 1 KHz repetition rate.
SO GENERALLY:
What you need in an instantaneous response on 904 nm band as well as 904 sidebands through several orders,both skirts.Pulse width @ 1kc S/B 5 ns as well as odd/even harmonics of 1kc rep rate.I would tend to emphasize the harmonic content.Maybe a really good detector and a very non-linear amplifier would work! Where is Jeff from MD when I need him?
I may know someone who would trade services with a WEBB expert!
This is not complicated at all.Your partial post:
Police lidar is 904 nanometers, 5 nanosecond pulses of 25 Watt instantaneous power delivered into a 4 milliradian cone angle at 1 KHz repetition rate.
SO GENERALLY:
What you need in an instantaneous response on 904 nm band as well as 904 sidebands through several orders,both skirts.Pulse width @ 1kc S/B 5 ns as well as odd/even harmonics of 1kc rep rate.I would tend to emphasize the harmonic content.Maybe a really good detector and a very non-linear amplifier would work! Where is Jeff from MD when I need him?
I may know someone who would trade services with a WEBB expert!
07-11-2002, 01:33 AM
#22
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Save your money and research program - buy a CB radio. Get warning of Smokies 10+ miles ahead. Plus, it works whether they're shooting your nose, tail, roof, or door (will your high falutin' magic box?)
Ain't foolproof tho - had it and V1 on one day when was driving on I-70 in western PA. 18-wheeler sez over the CB "Smokie shooting the westbound lane at mile marker 52" - this was at a point where speed limit dropped to 55 MPH. Figured I was fine since I was headed east, so continued at about 70MPH. AS I hit the mile marker, CB radio fired up again with same 18-wheeler; this time he said "Did I say westbound? I meant to say Eastbound!". Right after, V1 goes "BEEEEEP" as I pass the Smokie location and he hits me from behind. Instant ticket.
What made this worse - about 5 seconds later, I get passed by a Vette doing at least 80MPH. I still got pulled over instead - cop apologized but said that radar system had locked when it got me, so he couldn't track the Vette. Yeah, still got a ticket.
Ain't foolproof tho - had it and V1 on one day when was driving on I-70 in western PA. 18-wheeler sez over the CB "Smokie shooting the westbound lane at mile marker 52" - this was at a point where speed limit dropped to 55 MPH. Figured I was fine since I was headed east, so continued at about 70MPH. AS I hit the mile marker, CB radio fired up again with same 18-wheeler; this time he said "Did I say westbound? I meant to say Eastbound!". Right after, V1 goes "BEEEEEP" as I pass the Smokie location and he hits me from behind. Instant ticket.
What made this worse - about 5 seconds later, I get passed by a Vette doing at least 80MPH. I still got pulled over instead - cop apologized but said that radar system had locked when it got me, so he couldn't track the Vette. Yeah, still got a ticket.
07-11-2002, 03:07 PM
#23
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I thought this site (in the UK, but I think most of the laser jammers are available in the US) had some pretty good information:
<a href="http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/frames.htm" target="_blank">UK Speedtraps (w/tests of laser jammers and detectors)</a>
Brett
<a href="http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/frames.htm" target="_blank">UK Speedtraps (w/tests of laser jammers and detectors)</a>
Brett
08-08-2002, 01:46 AM
#25
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Robin-Got my Valentine after sending you pvt e-mail about my recent run down 75 towards Cin City, home of the Valentine mfg. Went to the old DIYs and printed out your step by step instructions for hardwiring and was all set to go. 'Cept for one thing, my 993 is a Cab. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> Guess this is another case of make it up as I go as far as running the hardwiring.
But as far as your jamming scenario goes, its not the FDA or FTC or whatever that is the problem. The individual states set up their own driving laws and you may (or not) be aware of some states just north of you that confiscate detectors and other items if seen in the vehicle and have the state courts and laws to back their play. So I guess as integrated as the system is that you propose, they might just grab the whole p-car based on just the slim evidence that something is in it that disrupts their nifty equipment!?
Perish the mere thought of it!!! <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
But as far as your jamming scenario goes, its not the FDA or FTC or whatever that is the problem. The individual states set up their own driving laws and you may (or not) be aware of some states just north of you that confiscate detectors and other items if seen in the vehicle and have the state courts and laws to back their play. So I guess as integrated as the system is that you propose, they might just grab the whole p-car based on just the slim evidence that something is in it that disrupts their nifty equipment!?
Perish the mere thought of it!!! <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
08-09-2002, 02:47 AM
#26
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Robin,
I know a great attorney here in Atlanta that will help you with this. I got nailed on 400 as well for 85 in a 55 with laser.
I got off completely. Getting a number of delays to answer the charge and the subtle threat of taking it to trial was enough to get a Not Guilty. Laser and radar evidence is troublesome, not impossible, to get into evidence. The courts do not want to take these to trial. What they're hoping for is for you to plead a nolo, a guilty, or a not guilty but defend yourself. You need to fight this because the chances are you have another ticket waiting for you within a month. It's sod's law mate. Next thing you know you've got 8 points on your license and your insurance goes nuts. Same thing happened to me - no tickets in 6 years and then I got 2 in a month. I got out of both.
Personally I don't think using a diffuser will make much difference. If you think about it, with the kind of traffic you see in Atlanta there's no way they're picking up individual cars but randomly selecting who they want based upon the speed of the traffic. It's the "why did you get me" syndrome. If you're going just a couple of miles an hour faster and the cop knows the traffic is doing 75 in a 55 you could have a diffuser but he's still going to nail you as he can laser any car and pin it on you.
The best bet here in Atlanta is to drive 69mph in a 55 and if you get caught it won't go on the license. That extra 5 or 8 mph doesn't make any difference to your arrival time really but will mean points and a big fine if you're caught.
Noticed that you're from Alpharetta like me. Watch out on Windward Parkway. The cops have these new black motorcycles - very stealthy. Saw them yesterday running a speed trap with them and a couple of cop cars pulling people over like shooting fish in a barrel.
I know a great attorney here in Atlanta that will help you with this. I got nailed on 400 as well for 85 in a 55 with laser.
I got off completely. Getting a number of delays to answer the charge and the subtle threat of taking it to trial was enough to get a Not Guilty. Laser and radar evidence is troublesome, not impossible, to get into evidence. The courts do not want to take these to trial. What they're hoping for is for you to plead a nolo, a guilty, or a not guilty but defend yourself. You need to fight this because the chances are you have another ticket waiting for you within a month. It's sod's law mate. Next thing you know you've got 8 points on your license and your insurance goes nuts. Same thing happened to me - no tickets in 6 years and then I got 2 in a month. I got out of both.
Personally I don't think using a diffuser will make much difference. If you think about it, with the kind of traffic you see in Atlanta there's no way they're picking up individual cars but randomly selecting who they want based upon the speed of the traffic. It's the "why did you get me" syndrome. If you're going just a couple of miles an hour faster and the cop knows the traffic is doing 75 in a 55 you could have a diffuser but he's still going to nail you as he can laser any car and pin it on you.
The best bet here in Atlanta is to drive 69mph in a 55 and if you get caught it won't go on the license. That extra 5 or 8 mph doesn't make any difference to your arrival time really but will mean points and a big fine if you're caught.
Noticed that you're from Alpharetta like me. Watch out on Windward Parkway. The cops have these new black motorcycles - very stealthy. Saw them yesterday running a speed trap with them and a couple of cop cars pulling people over like shooting fish in a barrel.
08-09-2002, 12:42 PM
#27
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I agree with Othello's point(above). I too had a "clean" record for 10 or so years. Then, in one month, I received a 75/40 on the bike, followed by
a 61/45 in the p-car. I decided that I had to challenge both, since, I thought, one more and I might have to study the bus route map. I think that you're challenging the "next ticket". I managed to knock down the 73/40 to 2 points and skate on the 61/45, but it cost $ to do so.
In NJ, you will receive both a Division of Motor Vehicles surcharge as well as the insurance co. will raise rates.
a 61/45 in the p-car. I decided that I had to challenge both, since, I thought, one more and I might have to study the bus route map. I think that you're challenging the "next ticket". I managed to knock down the 73/40 to 2 points and skate on the 61/45, but it cost $ to do so.
In NJ, you will receive both a Division of Motor Vehicles surcharge as well as the insurance co. will raise rates.
08-09-2002, 06:54 PM
#28
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[quote]Originally posted by tom_993:
<strong>Let’s do some math: One $300 ticket every 10 years is $30 a year, and you’re spending how much on a V1 and a multi-angle diffuser? This is why I don’t have a V1. Are you sure it's worth the expense?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just returned from the Parade in Boise - 1000 miles each way. Yes, the Valentine 1 is worth it. It allowed me to shorten the trip by hours. Imagine driving throught the deserts in eastern Oregon with a 55 mph speed limit designed as a revenue device.
Also, it is more than the cost of the ticket - add in the increase in insurance premiums for 3 years and/or the cost of the driving school required to get the points off your record. The Valentine is still not a reason to get careless, however, as my instant-on rader ticket in Mississippi can attest to.
<strong>Let’s do some math: One $300 ticket every 10 years is $30 a year, and you’re spending how much on a V1 and a multi-angle diffuser? This is why I don’t have a V1. Are you sure it's worth the expense?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I just returned from the Parade in Boise - 1000 miles each way. Yes, the Valentine 1 is worth it. It allowed me to shorten the trip by hours. Imagine driving throught the deserts in eastern Oregon with a 55 mph speed limit designed as a revenue device.
Also, it is more than the cost of the ticket - add in the increase in insurance premiums for 3 years and/or the cost of the driving school required to get the points off your record. The Valentine is still not a reason to get careless, however, as my instant-on rader ticket in Mississippi can attest to.
08-10-2002, 07:41 PM
#29
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I'm intersted in your research. I used a lidar plate in combo with high beams and it worked several times. Supposed to prevent laser lock down to ~400 feet. There are new lidar plates out now, but they are in the $300 range. Tecfhnology keeps changing, so I keep hoping...
Don't ever go to court without legal representation, even on the "little" violations.
Colorado Front Range, contact Jack Rottolle at 303-399-1600 or cell at 303-877-5851
Extremely satisfied customer. He's a tenacious bulldog of a lawyer, and knows all the DMV, judges, etc. in the traffic vilation units.
I continued to drive legally after several very large speeding tickets in a short period of time... 85 in 35 etc. He also helpd a friend of mine in a similar situation. Even if it's too late on this ticket, write down the contact info... you won't be disappointed. His rates were $500 per incident, but it certainly depends on each situation.
Good Luck.
ChrisK Silver '98 C2S
Don't ever go to court without legal representation, even on the "little" violations.
Colorado Front Range, contact Jack Rottolle at 303-399-1600 or cell at 303-877-5851
Extremely satisfied customer. He's a tenacious bulldog of a lawyer, and knows all the DMV, judges, etc. in the traffic vilation units.
I continued to drive legally after several very large speeding tickets in a short period of time... 85 in 35 etc. He also helpd a friend of mine in a similar situation. Even if it's too late on this ticket, write down the contact info... you won't be disappointed. His rates were $500 per incident, but it certainly depends on each situation.
Good Luck.
ChrisK Silver '98 C2S
08-12-2002, 11:22 AM
#30
Drifting
Not to be a dope. but you could sell you V-1 and get the Passport SRW. It's Cincinnati Microwave's topend hidden setup. With the laser detector/jammers located in the front near the license plates and one in the rear. It's about $1400 installed though. Just another option.
