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Thanks for the comprehensive reply - all great info! They'll compliment your RS setup brilliantly.
That said, considering the quality and extensiveness of your project, I'd have bet on you going for (or at least considering) the likes of MCS or EXE-TC (what Tuthill may have preferred?) or TracTive (what Tuthill may now prefer?) for your suspension rebuild.
We don't hear such gossip in the UK - what does each reputation entail? Or, what's been reported re: the BBi items?
I second this. Give us the juicy details about BBI.
{snip}
placing the ball joint on top of the A-arm does the same thing, I don't know that it's a good idea but BBi seems to think it is.
nope, you'll notice that the ball joint position relative to the spindle is lowered in all of the photos of parts that actually affect roll centers.. Flipping the ball joint to the other side of the arm does not do anything for that.
Again, the IC and RC are derived by drawing a line through the center of the articulating elements, e.g center of ball joint and inner pivot. The shape or angle of the physical a-arm is irrelevant.
Not Clubsports, they are RS-specific V3's. It is PN: 35271020 on their Euro site. [[url=https://www.kwsuspensions.net/catalog/product/view/id/21908/category/2/?c_make=92&c_model=160&c_car=16034&ag=&pgs=160]Link] [also [url=https://docs.kwsuspension.de/ea-KWGFwEA-h68671020.pdf]link to instructions]
1) Both front/rear struts are different part numbers as they have shorter bodies to contend with the lower ride height. If you're running standard V3 coilovers at RS height, you're too close to bottoming out/riding on the bump stops, so the shorter body compensates for that.
2) The shouldered/threaded portion at the top of the shaft is longer, which allows for the thread to sufficiently pass through the spherical bearings in the RS top mounts (and aftermarket camber plates which use RS style top mounts + spherical bearings). There are aftermarket nuts available which provide more thread engagement via a stepped shoulder that fits inside the center of the bearing but there is no way to hold the shaft and torque the nut to spec. Common practice to just zap it "good & tight" with an impact gun.
3) The spring rates are the same as standard C2/C2S kit but no clue about dampening characteristics. I'd imagine there are some internal differences in the valving/oil to deal with the shorter bodies but given the adjustability of compression/rebound, this is likely irrelevant.
4) I'd imagine (not confirmed) that since they are designed for an RS specifically, that the mounting tab for the rear sway bar link is in the correct location and doesn't require fabricating an extension when using RS sway bars/links.
In my case, since I'm running RS uprights, RS ride height and everything else RS when it comes to suspension, it doesn't make sense to run coilovers designed for a non-RS.
I ordered the KW V3's for 993RS application a few days ago. They're built to order (3 weeks). While waiting, I asked KW Europe to confirm the differences vs the non-RS kits.
Confirming what I posted above, plus a few more bits they shared:
1) The shock bodies are shorter (again due to lower ride height)
2) The internal piston rods are shorter (makes sense as the bodies are shorter)
3) Different "travel way" (meaning the +/- articulation of the suspension travel; no context as far as numbers were provided, just that it is "different")
4) Different valves (piston valve & compression/foot valve)
5) Oil weight is the same (it is the same for all single tube cartridges)
6) Additional threaded length on top of piston shaft (due to larger bearings on monoball top mounts; more exposed thread for nut engagement as shown above)
7) Drop link mounts on the rear shocks are lower for RS droplinks/swaybar setup
8) "Other small differences in the bump stops and upper spring seat, etc"
9) Spring rates are identical (tuning is achieved via the internal valve differences)
10) Recommended base settings - Front: Rebound - 6 clicks open; Compression - 6 clicks open; Rear: Rebound - 8 clicks open; Compression - 3 clicks open
FYI, standard V3's for non-RS recommended base settings: Front Rebound - 9 clicks open; Compression - 9 clicks open; Rear: Rebound - 8 clicks open; Compression - 3 clicks open
After a two month wait while these were built to order, I finally got the KW V3's for 993 RS application. Had no idea they had even shipped yet from Germany and the DHL truck pulled up and dropped these on the porch.
I saw the DHL guy walking away from our house back to the van and thought "what did my wife order from overseas now??" I open the door and yes, it felt like Christmas.
I had KW V3's on the car previously and was very happy with them. During the rebuild of the car, I transitioned to all RS suspension bits (including wheel carriers), so I decided to get these RS specific units and avoid some of the compromises in using the non-RS units.
Just got my car back from a very lengthy mechanical rebuild, which includes all suspension bushings, BBi RS uprights, front tarrett sway drop links, and KW clubsports. Still in break-in process (did the 3.8 upgrade), but so far rides great, at least as comfortable as my old setup of m030/Bilstein HD.
After reading this thread, and pretty much any other I can find in relation to suspension on these cars and spending about a month+ behind the wheel of a 98 C2S I bought; I have a few questions.
I'll try and be as succinct as I can.
After 40k miles over 3 years in my 997.2 GT3, I decided it was time to try something else. The 993 has always appealed to me and long story short I have ended up with a lovely Arena Red Carrera S.
The GT3 was an entirely different car in almost every way.
Suspension related info: The car was lowered to slightly below Euro height. Camber plates, some cup suspension parts and pretty much all adjustable links from ERP or Tarret and a fantastic alignment set up by one of the best in the 997 GT car bubble.
I drove this car all over the west coast and even though it was rigid- it was fantastic on back roads and road trips alike. Very dual purpose.
However my intent was to track the car regularly and I did not. So some of the suspension modifications were, I'm sure, lost on a primarily street driven car. I do not plan on tracking the 993.
Intent:
SoCal Back roads, canyon driving, road tripping, etc.
The car is completely stock outside of Bilstein PSS10 and it rides quite comfortably but also floaty depending on the speed or bank.
I would like to have the car a little above RS height.
My question:
For someone who really wants to extract what the C2S offers for spirited driving, but is not concerned with track days - what is the suggested application of suspension related parts (give or take)?
I find myself inundated with choice and going down the same rabbit hole I did on the GT3. Most sites like Elephant racing seem redundant in offerings or have multiple options of the same thing.
Opinions on setup with these cars seems to vary drastically. ie. Some seem to be ok with bump steer correction and rack bushings, and others go RS uprights and every adjustable link for a street car.
A lot of talk about getting the car set up by a competent individual who knows them well. I know of a few but I have never worked with them as Im new to air-cooled groups. Open to suggestions here too (Rstrada, West End, Mirage Intl., etc)
I have a few options I've laid out for myself but I will refrain from spelling out what I'm leaning toward so I don't provoke or bias an opinion. I'm just looking for a more comprehensive view on what *should* be done vs what *could* be done.
Much appreciated in advance and Im totally in love with the car already!
After reading this thread, and pretty much any other I can find in relation to suspension on these cars and spending about a month+ behind the wheel of a 98 C2S I bought; I have a few questions.
I'll try and be as succinct as I can.
After 40k miles over 3 years in my 997.2 GT3, I decided it was time to try something else. The 993 has always appealed to me and long story short I have ended up with a lovely Arena Red Carrera S.
The GT3 was an entirely different car in almost every way.
Suspension related info: The car was lowered to slightly below Euro height. Camber plates, some cup suspension parts and pretty much all adjustable links from ERP or Tarret and a fantastic alignment set up by one of the best in the 997 GT car bubble.
I drove this car all over the west coast and even though it was rigid- it was fantastic on back roads and road trips alike. Very dual purpose.
However my intent was to track the car regularly and I did not. So some of the suspension modifications were, I'm sure, lost on a primarily street driven car. I do not plan on tracking the 993.
Intent:
SoCal Back roads, canyon driving, road tripping, etc.
The car is completely stock outside of Bilstein PSS10 and it rides quite comfortably but also floaty depending on the speed or bank.
I would like to have the car a little above RS height.
My question:
For someone who really wants to extract what the C2S offers for spirited driving, but is not concerned with track days - what is the suggested application of suspension related parts (give or take)?
I find myself inundated with choice and going down the same rabbit hole I did on the GT3. Most sites like Elephant racing seem redundant in offerings or have multiple options of the same thing.
Opinions on setup with these cars seems to vary drastically. ie. Some seem to be ok with bump steer correction and rack bushings, and others go RS uprights and every adjustable link for a street car.
A lot of talk about getting the car set up by a competent individual who knows them well. I know of a few but I have never worked with them as Im new to air-cooled groups. Open to suggestions here too (Rstrada, West End, Mirage Intl., etc)
I have a few options I've laid out for myself but I will refrain from spelling out what I'm leaning toward so I don't provoke or bias an opinion. I'm just looking for a more comprehensive view on what *should* be done vs what *could* be done.
Much appreciated in advance and Im totally in love with the car already!
for your intended use
use RS sort rubber bushes, RS only used them on the front Arm trailing leg, use on both legs for a bit more precision w/o losing any comfort, RS only used them on the rear Arm trailing leg and on the KT arm, that works quite well, for additional precision you can also use them on camber and toe links.
I find the PSS9/10s to be a bit soft and floaty but generally ok, a bit stiffer spring and a bit more control from better shocks help a lot, The KWs described here seem ok, best is JRZ or MCS it all depends on budget and what you like.
you don't need RS wheel carriers above RS ride height, at most o/s tie rod ends
the S versions have more under steer than I like but everyone is different, adj RS sways can be very helpful in dialing it down.
wheels and tires are huge
8 & 10 x18 225/45 & 285/30 is stock 8.5 fronts w/ 235 or 245 tires would also help to dial down understeer. The 285/30 rears are perfectly sized
04-18-2024 | 02:43 PM
- all great info! They'll compliment your RS setup brilliantly.
It is PN: 35271020 on their Euro site. [[url=https://www.kwsuspensions.net/catalog/product/view/id/21908/category/2/?c_make=92&c_model=160&c_car=16034&ag=&pgs=160]Link] [also [url=https://docs.kwsuspension.de/ea-KWGFwEA-h68671020.pdf]link to instructions]
