And ... I'm back in a new 993!
04-21-2004, 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by Pete K
Looks good, welcome back to the fold.
BTW, on the airport thing. I have found that if you ask the first screener to stamp your ticket that you have already been strip searched at security they then do not have to do it again at the gate.
Pete
Looks good, welcome back to the fold.
BTW, on the airport thing. I have found that if you ask the first screener to stamp your ticket that you have already been strip searched at security they then do not have to do it again at the gate.
Pete
lol.... try a one way from chicago to lax to pick up a 993 to drive back.. now try it with a checked bag of tools just-in-case and see how you are treated!
.....oh, btw: buying a round trip ticket and NOT using the return can cost you more $$$ (just look up the new rules on this from American and United)...
04-21-2004, 07:17 AM
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Hi Vic,
Your experience is very interesting. Certainly to me, as after two 993s I now drive a 996 Cab not unlike the one you had.
I read the reasons you gave for going back to the 993. I understand them, but I would also like your honest impression on what it's like actually going back to the 993, now you've had a chance to live with it a little.
There are things I miss about the 993, like the way the car makes you feel everything that's going on as if you were actually sitting on the front wheels. I find the 996 is so much better in terms of handling that I actually feel less "connected" to the road. It's as if the car is doing all the work for me...
That said, I'm sure it would be really hard to go back to a 993. The 996 feels so much more modern and logical.
What are your thoughts on this?
Your experience is very interesting. Certainly to me, as after two 993s I now drive a 996 Cab not unlike the one you had.
I read the reasons you gave for going back to the 993. I understand them, but I would also like your honest impression on what it's like actually going back to the 993, now you've had a chance to live with it a little.
There are things I miss about the 993, like the way the car makes you feel everything that's going on as if you were actually sitting on the front wheels. I find the 996 is so much better in terms of handling that I actually feel less "connected" to the road. It's as if the car is doing all the work for me...
That said, I'm sure it would be really hard to go back to a 993. The 996 feels so much more modern and logical.
What are your thoughts on this?
04-21-2004, 08:04 AM
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Stephan:
I should probably preface this by noting that I've been driving various 911s for the last 14 years; I started with a 1980 911SC and went through a scattering of 3.2 Carreras, 993s and even an 87 930. So I definitely feel very at home in the driver's seat of the 993.
And that was probably the thing I missed the most when I started driving the 996. I felt it was very much a 911 and very much a Porsche but, as you said, it was so tremendously easy to drive that it wasn't as involving an experience as the 993 (or any other 911) is. The tradeoff was the 996 had better ergonomics (although I missed the character of the older car), was quieter (missed the engine noise and considered getting the Porsche Sport Exhaust immediately) and was noticeably more powerful (that I would definitely enjoy in the 993).
The controls in the 996 were much lighter -- clutch was easy, gearbox was more like a Honda than a 911. Not to be sexist, but the 993 feels like more of a "man's car" than the 996. It was certainly less fatiguing to drive the 996 long distances. The audio was much better; the climate control (heat, AC, defrost) is much better -- but the 993 was such a quantum leap over the older 911 that it's almost a moot point -- and overall the car felt more like a BMW (I've had a few of those, too).
Looks aside -- who doesn't miss the sexy curves of the 993? Look at the 997 -- the way the 996 is put together was a big factor. When you look closely at things -- the headlight assemblies,for example -- you are seeing a lot of plastic, snap fasteners instead of bolts, things that are fit together in a way that gives an impression of "good enough" instead of the really buttoned down and engineered feel of the 993. I'll give you a specific example; the fuse box on the 993 C2, under the front lid, has a rubber gasketed cover with two hinged locking fasteners. You snap it down and it's really on there. Under the hood of the 996, there is a lot of loose-fitting thin plastic that's covering things, you can move it around or flex it by hand. That's the kind of feel I'm talking about. Close the door on the 993 and then close the door on the 996. The 993 feels like it was hand built by someone who did it out of love; the 996 feels like it was built on an assembly line.
And that comes down to what a lot of people complain about over the 996; the engines are no longer hand assembled (the brochure for the 95 993 speaks of the engine "being painstakingly assembled by hand by one man"), if something goes wrong with it, they don't even rebuild it, they just uncrate a new one and put it in in an hour. The gearbox is less robust -- mine broke with 30k miles on it and they put a brand new one in there. They still can't figure out how not to have the rear main seals leak. Now, if yours leaks, they measure the roundness of the crank bore and if it's a certain amount out of tolerance, they just give you a new engine. Mine leaked, but it was within tolerance so I got a new seal instead. But think about that when the car is 10 years old; I doubt Porsche is going to be giving away new engines and gearboxes any more, and they are each about $12k. Further evidence: A 993 motor is in excess of $30k. There's a reason why.
In all other ways, the 996 feels like a superior car to the 993 when it's judged on what it does -- it's faster, handling is sharper, all the ergonomics work better, it's got better aerodynamics, more sophisticated electronics, better safety features. But when it comes down to the build impression, the 993 (and older 911s) feels like a hand-assembled race car, which is what I badly missed in the 996.
My impressions ...
Vic
95 C2
I should probably preface this by noting that I've been driving various 911s for the last 14 years; I started with a 1980 911SC and went through a scattering of 3.2 Carreras, 993s and even an 87 930. So I definitely feel very at home in the driver's seat of the 993.
And that was probably the thing I missed the most when I started driving the 996. I felt it was very much a 911 and very much a Porsche but, as you said, it was so tremendously easy to drive that it wasn't as involving an experience as the 993 (or any other 911) is. The tradeoff was the 996 had better ergonomics (although I missed the character of the older car), was quieter (missed the engine noise and considered getting the Porsche Sport Exhaust immediately) and was noticeably more powerful (that I would definitely enjoy in the 993).
The controls in the 996 were much lighter -- clutch was easy, gearbox was more like a Honda than a 911. Not to be sexist, but the 993 feels like more of a "man's car" than the 996. It was certainly less fatiguing to drive the 996 long distances. The audio was much better; the climate control (heat, AC, defrost) is much better -- but the 993 was such a quantum leap over the older 911 that it's almost a moot point -- and overall the car felt more like a BMW (I've had a few of those, too).
Looks aside -- who doesn't miss the sexy curves of the 993? Look at the 997 -- the way the 996 is put together was a big factor. When you look closely at things -- the headlight assemblies,for example -- you are seeing a lot of plastic, snap fasteners instead of bolts, things that are fit together in a way that gives an impression of "good enough" instead of the really buttoned down and engineered feel of the 993. I'll give you a specific example; the fuse box on the 993 C2, under the front lid, has a rubber gasketed cover with two hinged locking fasteners. You snap it down and it's really on there. Under the hood of the 996, there is a lot of loose-fitting thin plastic that's covering things, you can move it around or flex it by hand. That's the kind of feel I'm talking about. Close the door on the 993 and then close the door on the 996. The 993 feels like it was hand built by someone who did it out of love; the 996 feels like it was built on an assembly line.
And that comes down to what a lot of people complain about over the 996; the engines are no longer hand assembled (the brochure for the 95 993 speaks of the engine "being painstakingly assembled by hand by one man"), if something goes wrong with it, they don't even rebuild it, they just uncrate a new one and put it in in an hour. The gearbox is less robust -- mine broke with 30k miles on it and they put a brand new one in there. They still can't figure out how not to have the rear main seals leak. Now, if yours leaks, they measure the roundness of the crank bore and if it's a certain amount out of tolerance, they just give you a new engine. Mine leaked, but it was within tolerance so I got a new seal instead. But think about that when the car is 10 years old; I doubt Porsche is going to be giving away new engines and gearboxes any more, and they are each about $12k. Further evidence: A 993 motor is in excess of $30k. There's a reason why.
In all other ways, the 996 feels like a superior car to the 993 when it's judged on what it does -- it's faster, handling is sharper, all the ergonomics work better, it's got better aerodynamics, more sophisticated electronics, better safety features. But when it comes down to the build impression, the 993 (and older 911s) feels like a hand-assembled race car, which is what I badly missed in the 996.
My impressions ...
Vic
95 C2
Last edited by vjd3; 04-21-2004 at 08:21 AM.
04-21-2004, 11:19 AM
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Hi Vic,
What can I say, I agree with almost everything you've said. Thanks for that detailed explanation.
Personnally, I was shocked at the poor build quality of my 996 when I got it. I spent the first few weeks of ownership replacing the coolant reservoir (common fault - it was leaking), fixing the cable that runs for the gearbox to the gear selector (another common fault so I'm told), getting the PCM to work better (bad radio reception, poor GPS sensitivity), etc...
I was amazed at the sort of problems I was having with the car. But now that it's sorted, I love it. Sould I go back to a 993, I would sorely miss the AC that works, the auto power windows, the better ergonomics, the comfort... small things, some would say things that a true sportscar enthusiast shouldn't even worry about, but this is my only car (I live in Paris, France, which is kind of like New York in that you don't really need a car to get around, so you can afford to have just one "pleasure" car) and I find these things make it easier to live with.
But the 993 is one hell of a Porsche, no doubt. I suppose even Porsche agree, as the 997 is basically a 996 with a 993 front end! I do feel however that some versions of the 996, like the 996 C4S Cab, rank amongst the most beautiful 911s ever...
What can I say, I agree with almost everything you've said. Thanks for that detailed explanation.
Personnally, I was shocked at the poor build quality of my 996 when I got it. I spent the first few weeks of ownership replacing the coolant reservoir (common fault - it was leaking), fixing the cable that runs for the gearbox to the gear selector (another common fault so I'm told), getting the PCM to work better (bad radio reception, poor GPS sensitivity), etc...
I was amazed at the sort of problems I was having with the car. But now that it's sorted, I love it. Sould I go back to a 993, I would sorely miss the AC that works, the auto power windows, the better ergonomics, the comfort... small things, some would say things that a true sportscar enthusiast shouldn't even worry about, but this is my only car (I live in Paris, France, which is kind of like New York in that you don't really need a car to get around, so you can afford to have just one "pleasure" car) and I find these things make it easier to live with.
But the 993 is one hell of a Porsche, no doubt. I suppose even Porsche agree, as the 997 is basically a 996 with a 993 front end! I do feel however that some versions of the 996, like the 996 C4S Cab, rank amongst the most beautiful 911s ever...