MWP

I am considering the purchase of a 993RS (non clubsport). I know they don't come cheap, but they might hold their value better given the special status of RS Porsches. I also think it will give me a complete different driving experience compared to my (very much appreciated) 993 TT: more raw, agile, pure...

What should I look for when buying one? Of course I will be cautious about accident damage, cars that have seen the track too often, mileage, provenance, modifications, etc. But are there any particular things to keep an eye on?

Anyone considered buying a 964 RS instead of a 993 RS? Which one to prefer?

I look forward to your opinions! I see very little information on the 993RS here on Rennlist, probably because they were not offered on the US market initially...

JDHertz11

I spent a few months looking for a 964RS or a 993RS. Don't buy a Japanese car. Nearly every car here in the US was originally a Japanese car and most are junk. Lots of paintwork etc.. I hope you have better luck than I had!

MWP

Thanks for the advice. I'm in Europe, the RSes I came across didn't spent time in Japan, luckily.

Carlos993

Have to disagree, or clarify, about the statement on Japanese cars. I have lived in, and looked at, cars from the U.S., Europe, and Japan. The Japanese are some of the most meticulous in the world about caring for cars, and some of the very best car collections in the world are in Japan. The problem is that beginning about 10 years ago U.S. and European dealers converged on Japan to buy exotic cars, particularly Porsches, which have always been popular in Japan. My friendly dealers would tell me that it would not be unusual for 2 or 3 foreign dealers to call on them in a single day. By the time I left Tokyo there were at least a dozen outfits run by American or Europeans exporting Japanese cars. The result is that the second-rate and third rate Japanese cars would be bought and exported to the U.S. and Europe, and this is what most people see. And the highest quality cars would stay local, with limited exceptions. But top tier cars from the right source in Japan would match any European or American car for quality.

BTW, exporting cars is a sizeable business in Japan, because the very stringent shaken - the regulatory vehicle inspection in Japan - makes it expensive, or impossible, to keep a car on the road in Japan. It is additionally for this reason that modified, poorly maintained, or "junk" cars, are exported quickly, and this is what many people see, including some Porsches. If I remember correctly, about 30,000 cars per month are auctioned off in Tokyo alone and sent abroad.

To the OP - huge difference between 964 RS, and the 993 RS. Pick your poison, but the 993 RS is much more refined, and the 964 RS celebrated for its visceral - and very firm - drive.

JDHertz11

I'm all for your clarification. Luckily the buyer is in Europe. Contact TJS/ German Sports Cars and 11’er. They both seem to have quality cars.


iQUOTE=Carlos993;17489908]Have to disagree, or clarify, about the statement on Japanese cars. I have lived in, and looked at, cars from the U.S., Europe, and Japan. The Japanese are some of the most meticulous in the world about caring for cars, and some of the very best car collections in the world are in Japan. The problem is that beginning about 10 years ago U.S. and European dealers converged on Japan to buy exotic cars, particularly Porsches, which have always been popular in Japan. My friendly dealers would tell me that it would not be unusual for 2 or 3 foreign dealers to call on them in a single day. By the time I left Tokyo there were at least a dozen outfits run by American or Europeans exporting Japanese cars. The result is that the second-rate and third rate Japanese cars would be bought and exported to the U.S. and Europe, and this is what most people see. And the highest quality cars would stay local, with limited exceptions. But top tier cars from the right source in Japan would match any European or American car for quality.

BTW, exporting cars is a sizeable business in Japan, because the very stringent shaken - the regulatory vehicle inspection in Japan - makes it expensive, or impossible, to keep a car on the road in Japan. It is additionally for this reason that modified, poorly maintained, or "junk" cars, are exported quickly, and this is what many people see, including some Porsches. If I remember correctly, about 30,000 cars per month are auctioned off in Tokyo alone and sent abroad.

To the OP - huge difference between 964 RS, and the 993 RS. Pick your poison, but the 993 RS is much more refined, and the 964 RS celebrated for its visceral - and very firm - drive.[/QUOTE]

MWP

Thanks for clarifying the Japanese car export market. Seems a valid explanation.

I'm aware of the offering of TJS and 11'er. They seem to offer the mint cars I'm looking for, but their pricing is at the top end of current market values.

JDHertz11

Welcome to 2021! Imagine how this looks to those of us that have been 993 enthusiasts for many, many years. We’ve seen the prices x5 or more for certain cars. There weren’t too many 993RS produced which means only a handful for sale at any given time which means even more $/€.

Watson

I don’t know 993 RS market values but FWIW, I was researching a 993 maybe 2 years ago and came across a magnificent black 993 C2S with full tan leather from TJS - rather heavily optioned car with 60k miles and price was 121kUSD at that time (99.9k€ in fact) which was not the most expensive black C2S on market at that time (highest I remember was 151kUSD). I remember thinking at that time that this C2S from TJS was fairly priced.

MWP

I had a call with TJS earlier today. It appears -as could be expected- there is a huge price delta among even the best RSes, based primarily on mileage, with 50.000 miles seen as already fairly high-mileage cars. Quite some cars on the market have much less miles on the odometer. I'm always surprised how previous owners could refrain from driving a car such as an 993 RS when it is sitting in their garage. As if a 993 RS was made for masochists, people who felt putting miles on their car was just shy of a crime.

I drive my 911s as often as I can. Perhaps I have a lack of self control?

Watson

Thanks, that is very interesting, I did not know that.

You are doing the right thing Sir. Last thing I want is to be on my death bed and wishing I had driven the 911 more before I leave this world. Now, if you excuse me, I'll leave this thread and go out make my 911 depreciates more.

geolab

Since 993 RS was primarily issued for track, and at the moment they produced the cars, at least europeans where shy of purchasing a track car for the road, you must take into consideration that track cars, in Europe at least, have milage inversly proportional to street cars.
The RS was cheaper than the 4s , or something like that
A track Porsche , rented by a track racing club, would end up sold with a low mileage odo , beaten up, but track milage is not high usually
at least that's how I've seen it along the years.
So the delta is meaningless in this example me thinks
I wouldn't mind looking at all mileages for a good example

MWP

I tend to agree with you: mileage is a relative thing, its all about where/how the miles were driven. This being said, if I would have bought a new 993 RS in the nineties, I would have taken it to the track without any doubt. The cars are made for that purpose. But a car owned by a track racing club will be treated differently compared to a privately owned car. That's why I would never buy such a car with a water tight provenance.

I've identified an interesting candidate for purchase, it will be thoroughly inspected inside out by a specialist at the end of this week. Fingers crossed!

geolab

this must be a miracle.... 993 specialist ? where ? it's a myth

some chaps here know these cars better than you know your palm , and for free, be subtile

MWP

Paying a reasonable price for a specialist I trust is not such an issue if you consider the budget of a 993 RS. Peace of mind is worth something.
While I respect the 993 literacy on Rennlist, I don't expect Rennlisters to do all the physical & visual checks on a car somewhere in Europe. Might get complicated.

Churchill

If you are looking for a driving experience, the way to go is to modify a 993 C2 to RS spec or whatever your taste is. Much better value proposition. If you are looking for a car collection type piece, then of course get a real RS. My 993 C2 with a modern 3.8, suspension, and gearbox would obliterate a stock 993RS in every performance category and I can rack up the miles guilt-free and park it on the street. To me that's the way to go.