Brake pads... which to choose?
03-27-2002, 12:07 PM
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Brake pads... which to choose?
Hello,
It's time for a brake pad change. I was wondering what you guys would reccommend. I want a pad for street and mild track. I was looking a Pagid Dark Blue and Pagid Orange. Brake squeal is not much of a concern for me.
TIA guys!
It's time for a brake pad change. I was wondering what you guys would reccommend. I want a pad for street and mild track. I was looking a Pagid Dark Blue and Pagid Orange. Brake squeal is not much of a concern for me.
TIA guys!
03-27-2002, 12:28 PM
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R SQUADRON 911,
I've had the Pagid Blues and the Oranges. I prefer the Oranges because, in my experience, they were more durable and easier on rotors. I know the rotor part doesn't align with the Blues being a combination type pad, but that's what it's been for me. Also, they're both about the same in the squeal department. And I think they're about the same in price as well.
I've had the Pagid Blues and the Oranges. I prefer the Oranges because, in my experience, they were more durable and easier on rotors. I know the rotor part doesn't align with the Blues being a combination type pad, but that's what it's been for me. Also, they're both about the same in the squeal department. And I think they're about the same in price as well.
03-27-2002, 12:49 PM
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Why not keep using the factory pads if all you do is "mild" track driving. They work great for me during my occasional track events with at least a dozen laps per day.
03-27-2002, 01:00 PM
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I agree with Viken. I run my car at the track all the time, and only use stock pads. Never had a fade issue, but maybe it is worse with the non-turbo brakes?
Are your brakes not working good enough now?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Are your brakes not working good enough now?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
03-27-2002, 01:24 PM
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[quote]Why not keep using the factory pads if all you do is "mild" track driving. They work great for me during my occasional track events with at least a dozen laps per day. <hr></blockquote>
Personally, would agree - or else go to Metalmasters. Heavy track use would require two sets of pads - one for street (see above) and one for track (for which I like Performance Friction 90 compound).
Personally, would agree - or else go to Metalmasters. Heavy track use would require two sets of pads - one for street (see above) and one for track (for which I like Performance Friction 90 compound).
03-27-2002, 02:02 PM
#6
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Hey Guys,
For the street I have been using the OEM pads. For the track, Pagid Orange's.
I have the non turbo brakes and I also have a front brake cooling kit. I have experienced considerable fade even with the Pagid Orange's on the track. Granted, since I purchased the car I've only been on Sebring which is hard on brakes.
When I first got the car, the pagid oranges felt real strong on the track. The more I tracked though and the more confident I got with Pcar brakes, the deeper and harder I was on them. Only after braking real deep and hard did I really start to notice considerable fade with the pagid oranges (I ended a session early because my foot was going was too close to the floor.)
I do plan on upgrading my brake kit (not to big reds but something more aggressive) in the future.
I do highly recommend the Orange Pads though. Although I remember hearing that they are illegal to use on the street (don't quote me on that.)
It's also important to remember that the more aggressive the pad is, ultimately, the more damage there going to do to the rotors. I would assume that if pagid oranges were used on a constant basis for the street, you might find yourself often replacing rotors.
Just my op...
For the street I have been using the OEM pads. For the track, Pagid Orange's.
I have the non turbo brakes and I also have a front brake cooling kit. I have experienced considerable fade even with the Pagid Orange's on the track. Granted, since I purchased the car I've only been on Sebring which is hard on brakes.
When I first got the car, the pagid oranges felt real strong on the track. The more I tracked though and the more confident I got with Pcar brakes, the deeper and harder I was on them. Only after braking real deep and hard did I really start to notice considerable fade with the pagid oranges (I ended a session early because my foot was going was too close to the floor.)
I do plan on upgrading my brake kit (not to big reds but something more aggressive) in the future.
I do highly recommend the Orange Pads though. Although I remember hearing that they are illegal to use on the street (don't quote me on that.)
It's also important to remember that the more aggressive the pad is, ultimately, the more damage there going to do to the rotors. I would assume that if pagid oranges were used on a constant basis for the street, you might find yourself often replacing rotors.
Just my op...
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03-27-2002, 07:34 PM
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Seth,
You shouldn't have had any fading. I used the same brakes on my race car and never had a problem with fade. Try a different brake fluid or bleeding before an event.
Greg
You shouldn't have had any fading. I used the same brakes on my race car and never had a problem with fade. Try a different brake fluid or bleeding before an event.
Greg
03-27-2002, 09:47 PM
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Mr. Squadron,
I have used the stock pads, Hawk HPS, Pagid Orange and Hawk Blues. The last two I would consider track only pads. The Hawk HPS seem ok by me, the price was right (free) when I bought some stuff from a guy that was selling his car and all the DE equipment he had he threw these in with everything else. They seem to work a bit better than stock but are louder.
If you want to change out for track days go with either of the track pads I mentioned and you will be fine. The Hawk Blues are several steps up from the P.O. but have a very obnoxious, corrosive dust that you have to get off your car asap, even sooner if it starts to rain.
The PO are fine but are more expensive, the H.B. are about $150 less per set.
Greg
I have used the stock pads, Hawk HPS, Pagid Orange and Hawk Blues. The last two I would consider track only pads. The Hawk HPS seem ok by me, the price was right (free) when I bought some stuff from a guy that was selling his car and all the DE equipment he had he threw these in with everything else. They seem to work a bit better than stock but are louder.
If you want to change out for track days go with either of the track pads I mentioned and you will be fine. The Hawk Blues are several steps up from the P.O. but have a very obnoxious, corrosive dust that you have to get off your car asap, even sooner if it starts to rain.
The PO are fine but are more expensive, the H.B. are about $150 less per set.
Greg
03-28-2002, 01:53 AM
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Stock pads...Agree!
I have yet to experience any fade after a few DEs (one of which was in summer where temps were in the mid 90s). Nothing modified: fresh bleed with ATE "stupid" blue (in deference to Mr. Calvo
and oem pads. If I may add, on this one hot day, the run group I was in started to thin out at the late afternoon session....cars started peeling off the track one by one. Found out later that people were losing their brakes. 
The cars that were left were the P-cars, a couple of new Vettes, and a few modified Japanese cars. Although just one anecdote, this I feel is a testament of how good our brakes are bone stock. Hope this helps
Edward
I have yet to experience any fade after a few DEs (one of which was in summer where temps were in the mid 90s). Nothing modified: fresh bleed with ATE "stupid" blue (in deference to Mr. Calvo
and oem pads. If I may add, on this one hot day, the run group I was in started to thin out at the late afternoon session....cars started peeling off the track one by one. Found out later that people were losing their brakes. The cars that were left were the P-cars, a couple of new Vettes, and a few modified Japanese cars. Although just one anecdote, this I feel is a testament of how good our brakes are bone stock. Hope this helps Edward
03-28-2002, 12:43 PM
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Hey Steve and Greg,
I am using OEM brake fluid. When my brakes started to fade, I pit in and flushed the system.
It helped a lot but I still felt that the brakes were a little squishy after wards on the track.
I should probably upgrade to a brake fluid that they use for an 18 wheeler, I heard that helps a lot.
The only other thing that I can attribute to my brake fade is, I started to notice there was more fade when I would warm up the the brakes during the warm up (yellow flag) lap.
I always used to make it a point to warm up brakes in my audi (but i used to have a big brake kit in the car, (stoptech brakes)) and I used to notice that a couple hard thresholds in warm up got them real tight.
Maybe there is nothing wrong with my brakes after all. I'm sure Greg that if we are using the same kit I am just overlooking something painfully obvious. My first guess is, maybe when I do my warm up laps, I am being way too aggressive with heating up the pads/rotors. So maybe by the time I'm 20-25 min into the session, I have pushed the heat threshold of the brake or the fluid.
I guess I can try to not warm up the brakes so much next time out. But I still can't help but feel that if I want real hot laps under green, I need to get those brakes up to temp under yellow. I like to reference sight visuals on the track for my braking zones and if it takes 2-3 laps to build the heat then I have lost some valueable lapping/reference point time. On most tracks it's not important but at a place like Sebring a session might only be 8-9 laps.
I'll be driving Moroso and Homestead this month so I guess I'll have more opportiunity to experiment. Also, the clubs I will be running with are open track so I have more opportiunity to experiment.
Hey Greg, I am also going to assume when you say that we run the same brakes, you mean on your race car. (I don't think you track your street car anymore.) Doesn't the fact the you are carrying so much less weight really make a difference. Also, my lack of suspension could also be causing soo much weight to the front of the car, maybe the brakes are being over worked..
just some thoughts..
thanks all
I am using OEM brake fluid. When my brakes started to fade, I pit in and flushed the system.
It helped a lot but I still felt that the brakes were a little squishy after wards on the track.
I should probably upgrade to a brake fluid that they use for an 18 wheeler, I heard that helps a lot.
The only other thing that I can attribute to my brake fade is, I started to notice there was more fade when I would warm up the the brakes during the warm up (yellow flag) lap.
I always used to make it a point to warm up brakes in my audi (but i used to have a big brake kit in the car, (stoptech brakes)) and I used to notice that a couple hard thresholds in warm up got them real tight.
Maybe there is nothing wrong with my brakes after all. I'm sure Greg that if we are using the same kit I am just overlooking something painfully obvious. My first guess is, maybe when I do my warm up laps, I am being way too aggressive with heating up the pads/rotors. So maybe by the time I'm 20-25 min into the session, I have pushed the heat threshold of the brake or the fluid.
I guess I can try to not warm up the brakes so much next time out. But I still can't help but feel that if I want real hot laps under green, I need to get those brakes up to temp under yellow. I like to reference sight visuals on the track for my braking zones and if it takes 2-3 laps to build the heat then I have lost some valueable lapping/reference point time. On most tracks it's not important but at a place like Sebring a session might only be 8-9 laps.
I'll be driving Moroso and Homestead this month so I guess I'll have more opportiunity to experiment. Also, the clubs I will be running with are open track so I have more opportiunity to experiment.
Hey Greg, I am also going to assume when you say that we run the same brakes, you mean on your race car. (I don't think you track your street car anymore.) Doesn't the fact the you are carrying so much less weight really make a difference. Also, my lack of suspension could also be causing soo much weight to the front of the car, maybe the brakes are being over worked..
just some thoughts..
thanks all
03-28-2002, 01:29 PM
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Seth,
I don't know what brake fluid you are looking at going with but I would stay with one of the reccomendations you got here. ATE, Motul, among others are good fluids. I do know guys that use a version of Ford fluid that is supposed to work fine but I have no personal experience with it.
My car does weigh a few hundred lbs less but I used the same brakes on my street car when it would see track duty and never had a problem with fading. With PO pads you need to do some warm up, a few good applications should be fine.
Make sure you do a good flush and use a pressure bleeder to bleed both sides of the caliper. Other than that I am out of suggestions.
Greg
I don't know what brake fluid you are looking at going with but I would stay with one of the reccomendations you got here. ATE, Motul, among others are good fluids. I do know guys that use a version of Ford fluid that is supposed to work fine but I have no personal experience with it.
My car does weigh a few hundred lbs less but I used the same brakes on my street car when it would see track duty and never had a problem with fading. With PO pads you need to do some warm up, a few good applications should be fine.
Make sure you do a good flush and use a pressure bleeder to bleed both sides of the caliper. Other than that I am out of suggestions.
Greg
03-28-2002, 03:09 PM
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I would echo Greg's sentiments. I have been using ATE Super blue(we can't get the yellow ATE equivalent in the UK) for the last 18 months and have never had a problem with fade. Now coupled with P Orange's the braking is fantastic and feels good for running all day long. I have made the change to PSS9 suspension and RS bars and I guess that does'nt do any harm either. Hope you find a solution.
I would echo Greg's sentiments. I have been using ATE Super blue(we can't get the yellow ATE equivalent in the UK) for the last 18 months and have never had a problem with fade. Now coupled with P Orange's the braking is fantastic and feels good for running all day long. I have made the change to PSS9 suspension and RS bars and I guess that does'nt do any harm either. Hope you find a solution.