boomboomthump

These types of nonsensical claims are the types of posts that make me shy away from companies, regardless of decent looking products that do the job.

As a seasoned TIG welder (who can lay down beads nicer than anything that either of these two companies put out the door), I have to laugh at some of the stuff above. Media blasting removing "splatter" from welds? TIG welding does not produce any splatter. Other forms of welding do (MIG, ARC, etc) but media blasting absolutely will NOT remove this. Complete nonsense. Also, implying that one company blasts their products so that if they get returned products, they can blast and re-sell as new? Complete nonsense. Good luck trying to fully blast the insides of used pipes to make them look new.

My comments are not just directed at one of the above two companies. Just as much "fluff" from both companies. Touting back-purging (as if others don't do this) and the quality of Argon used? C'mon. Not everyone on here is clueless. That's not a selling point, it's basic procedure for welding stainless tubing.

Also, has any vendor who's ever made a dyno claim on here ever produced the evidence? So silly and only continues to lead to loss of credibility.

JParanee

i do not believe they will work on later 993’s

boomboomthump

Only because they are missing an O2 bung on the second pipe. Easily solved by retro-fitting one. But to answer the original post, I believe it's been discussed a few times (with real supporting data, Bill V maybe?) that an X-pipe is better than independent cross-over tubes.

HalfGerman

You also have to take into account some employees of one company might be former employees of another, IIRC. So there is some bitterness/ animosity between the two. Not posting links, but a quick google search will show you.

Harold

911F1

I believe you have that the wrong way. Bill, please chime in if I'm wrong. I believe he's done a test himself that shows the independent pipes produce better results.

boomboomthump

Eh, I did have it slightly wrong. He did not say they are better (x-pipe) but he also did not say that cross over tubes are better.

What he did say is that he runs cross-overs on his 3.8 in RSR fashion. He implied he runs them out of preference and that in all the dyno runs he's done, that x-pipes "do not add any meaningful horsepower gains". So that doesn't mean they produce less. If I'm reading between the lines, they may provide a hair more power but not "meaningful" amounts. Bill can certainly clarify but that is how I read his recent post a few weeks ago.

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...l#post16886591

IHTFP

I think Bill V is a little more forceful in his opinion on this thread

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...an-x-pipe.html

The cross pipes are 1/3 the price of an X-pipe. To me it is kind of an obvious choice if you don't run cats.

boomboomthump

He was, thanks. Interestingly enough, I recall that post a few months ago but had only briefly skimmed.

There was a reply from somone that said "cross overs" are better (the thread is about Cargraphic "Cross Overs" vs X-pipe). His first statement was "again, NO!" so it seemed he was stating an X-pipe is better but it seems there is terminology confusion here with some people using the term "cross over" as Cargraphic does (meaning two independent pipes which cross over each other and do not connect aka a "split" system) and others referring to an X-pipe/merge as a "cross over" (meaning the exhaust gas can partially "cross over" from one bank to another).


Bill posted a recent dyno pull showing torque numbers for a Fabspeed X (no cats), a split (no cats) and stock. Torque numbers were relatively the same for the X vs split, with some noted resonance on the X. There was also some comments that an X reduces some drone. Would love to see the HP comparison for those same pulls. Someone requested it but it did not get posted.

cobalt

We did test a brand of X pipe noted above with and without cats using stock headers and mufflers on a 97 993 C2 that tested factory perfect on the dyno with stock exhaust. All were done on the same day under the same conditions on the mustang. We saw 12.3 HP increase at the wheels and 11.7 Ft pounds of torque increase at the wheels without cats and I need to confirm the numbers but I believe it was 7.7 WHP and 7.5 WTq with cats. Not sure if this helps. Unfortunately I don't have the charts here and I am currently under quarantine otherwise I would post them. Also we did not notice any drone but hard to say on a dyno vs the road.