Speedraser

Like many others, I wouldn't buy a car on eBay unless I could see/drive/PPI it first. I think there are a lot of people who feel this way, and as a result, I think a significant portion of the market is not represented by eBay results because a significant portion of the market simply does not shop for Porsches there.

I didn't buy a 993 new because I couldn't afford one new at the time. I was very unhappy when they ceased production because I missed the opportunity to order one new to my specs. However, when I bought my car (exactly 4 years ago -- wait, it's after midnight -- 4 years and one day ago), I could have bought a new 996 -- I chose not to...

DC from Cape Cod

I did not buy my 993 new. It is my third 911 and my second 993. I spent many, monay months looking for a very clean car with low miles and factory aerokit. I found cars that were in accidents, cars that were misrepresented and cars that had been re-painted. Look as much as I did, I could not find a very clean example that was close enough for me to see.

Finally, I contacted Dave Maynard from EuropeanLocaters in Framingham...he knew that PCA President Tom Bobbit was thinking about selling his car and the rest is history.

I could not afford one in 1998 either. I also choose a 1998 C2S over a 993TT, 996 or 996TT because it was/is exactly what I wanted.

Why risk buying a car on Ebay, flying across the country and then finding out it isn't what you wanted? I don't have the time or the patience to go that route...it would drive me over the edge in no time. I much prefer the no/low hassle route where I find the best quality car(s) available, choose the one I like and then figure out what I am willing to pay.

nile13

Guys, once again, very good point.
It just dawned on me that we probably approach this experience from polar opposite directions. To me, getting a car and driving it accross the country is an adventure (did it twice from California, several times from Virginia/Maryland). Looking at cars is fun too, even bad ones. Hey, it might sound strange, but I used to like looking at cars at a junkyard to see how they are hit and how the things are put together. I still do if time permits.

Again, I understand that this is not for everybody and that's why brokers and dealers do enough business to stay in the money. I see nothing wrong with either approach. I'm also beginning to think that there are at least two separate markets out there with two different sets of rules and, perhaps, cars that don't really cross from one market to the other. It's personally important for me to understand, so thanks for all your input!

DC from Cape Cod

Mike,

I think we have met in the middle.

I agree that there are two distinct groups of buyers.....I call them "price buyers" and "condition buyers". Price buyers sort cars by price and then look at the condition. Condition buyers find the car they want by condition and then negotiate price.

If I had the time, I too would enjoy looking at cars and driving across country, etc. However, with kids (and all their activities) and work, I simply don't have the time to spare. When they are older, I will have a lot more free time and will try to do more fun things....but for now, time is what I never seem to have enough of.

nile13

DC, I hear what you're saying. I have a 6-year old But I'm in the other corner. More time than money currently. That, however, will probably change in the near future. But for now I'm enjoying it.

DC from Cape Cod

I hear that. My financial situation fluctuates every few years...more time than money and then the other way around. The only thing that never changes is how much time two little kids require. I spent my entire weekend at ice skating in Bridgewater, swimming at Brown University, karate on the Cape, etc.

Absolutely amazing.

I remember using a stick for a gun and playing war in the woods with my friends (I was born just as the Viet Nam War started). Was life more simple then or is my memory just failing?

Bob D.

Try TWO SETS of twins! We limit them each to one activity at a time, and even so, we can easily spend our whole weekend driving to and from lessons or sports events or birthday parties or playdates or....

I have to plan any "car stuff" weeks in advance, and even then it is hard on my wife or whomever is left at the helm, as all our kids are what we will politely call "vivacious' and "high energy." They're only 7 and 11 now; sometimes I yearn for the teen years when they will be sullen and independent.

I, too am a "condition" buyer, but with family demands, I couldn't be a deal hunter even if I wanted to be.

DC from Cape Cod

WOW - two sets of twins. I hope you have a set of boys and they are the older set.

My son is 11......I have some idea what it is like. Our house is the place where their friends congregate. On Sundays, we play paintball on a field we built in the woods (bunkers, trenches, 40+ firiing positions, etc.) and we sometimes have 15 people playing. My daughter (almost 10) has her girlfriends over as well.

In the summer time, our house looks like the MTV Beach House...I am thinking of hiring a life guard for the pool

It is both complete chaos and an absolute blast....I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Bob D.

DC, three girls and a boy. I have one friend who whenever he sees me merely shakes his head in pity at me and says "Three weddings! Three weddings!"

I counter with the fact that we spent a lot of time teaching our girls their first word. Not Mommy, not Daddy, but "elope."

And the chaos/blast thing? You hit it right on the head.

DC from Cape Cod

I think paying for the weddings will be easier than getting them there....good luck!

I've got my son on the payroll to keep an eye on his (not so little) sister.

john.rogers

Great discussion. BUT lets get down to cases.

IF you wanted to sell your car where would you go to get a reasonable price in a reasonable timeframe?

Lots of good input on values but what really works? ? ?

2ndof2

Getting back on topic here, the car I am looking at is a southern cal car. It's a '96, has about 62K miles and only the exhaust has been modified. Turbo twist wheels, not lowered, 6speed, C2 narrow body, metallic blk/blk interior. Looks very clean. The guy started at $37,500 months ago and now says $33K is his bottom line having put "$40K" into the car...whattever, people bought them new for $60K+, is that supposed to be some sort of selling point? Whatta joke! Even if this car is as clean as the photos look, there's no way its worth more than $30K. It would be a different story if he had just put new brakes, tires, clutch, shocks on the car and it had some high dollar mods like suspension, interior upgrades etc. but alas, it does not. Doesn't even have xenon lights or sport seats and he wants top dollar. IF.....and that's a big IF, the car had these kinds of mods and a maint. record of having alot done to the car of late I would consider his price. I am a "price shopper" looking for the best example at a price I can afford. I am also realistic and am not trying to hold out for only a bargain deal. I suppose around $30K is fair, but I am not about to pay this guy $33K if I can find a car in Florida that has all the mods I want, less miles, in the same condition for about that price. My brother can go see the car and I can either drive it home or ship it. Basically I can get a better car for the same price or just a bit more. 10% over fair market is reasonable to me but with all the sources out there telling me the guy's price is high, I'm getting frustrated hearing things from seller's like "there's not alot of 993's out there for sale" or "its the best example you'll find" (usually they say that when they have 90K miles, or the "I've put X dollars into it" when its practically bone stock with no recent maint. history. The guy says $33K, I say have a nice day!

red911c2

Guys, pls give me an opinion on this:

I'm looking at a 1997 C2 Coupe, 39,000 miles, white/black interior, tiptronic (so the wife can drive it), 18" turbo twists, lowered, exhaust, xenons, excellent condition (getting PPI done either tomorrow or Friday and that will verify).

The private owner is asking $40k, do you think that is in the ballpark or is it too high? Based on an autotrader.com search, it looks fair but I wanted to confirm with you guys.

Pls help me out quick so that I can become a 993 member. :-)

Thanks in advance!!!

Speedraser

2nd,

Obviously it depends on condition, but IMO $33K is NOT "top dollar" for a '96 Carrera with 62K miles. If it's in very good condition, it could easily be worth $33K, even if it isn't to you. Remember, also, that many people want an unmodified car, so the lack of the mods that you want does not necessarily hurt its value at all. Stock, it is worth MORE to many people than it would be if it were modified.

Maybe the issue here is just how nice condition-wise the car for you must be. I think you'll have a hard time finding a car with fewer miles plus all the mods you want for less than that price, IF the car is in very good condition. You may get lucky, but in the overall market, you're talking about a car that's worth more than $30K, and likely more than $33K. If it need not be super-nice, then it's another story. Mike S, who is clearly capable of finding some great deals, advised his friend to pay up to $30K for a car that is one year older and has 9K more miles on it.

Mike, is the car your friend may buy an early, mid or late-build '95? I ask because the '95 model year was very long; 1 year and 7 months long. IMO, a late build '95 is worth a bit more than an early build '95. Some '95 Carreras are newer than early "1996" Turbos, since there were no '95 model TTs in the US.

nile13

John, it depends on the car. It also depends on the seller. As a buyer, I usually don't buy the car, I buy the seller. Sometime I buy the price. The condition of the car has to merely fit with the price.
I know it sounds very strange, but let me explain. DC mentioned a certain broker that he absolutely trusts, therefore anything that the broker finds for him is apriory "good" (which it probably is). That's buying the seller. If John D. or ViperBob decide to sell their cars (or any car) today, there will be a line of people waiting to buy them. Because both these gentlemen have a reputation here, and we already bought them, we just waiting for them to offer their cars to us
Both myself and John D. bought the price, as both cars had to be bought at _that_ price, no matter who or what teh seller was.

Why am I saying this? The fastest way to sell the car is to sell it to a group of people that know you well and hold you in hight esteem. Failing that, I would say advertise in the largest local newspaper. Paper edition. It's expensive, but still teh most effective way to sell. eBay is an alternative in my mind, depending on the car and the price. Certainly free advertising like Craigslist should not be overlooked. I find local "Want Ads" type things or secondary newspapers to be completely useless. I'm not sure about Autotrader specifically, but I don't put too much stock in it. Cars.com will list your car automatically if you advertised it in the local paper, I believe.

Hope that helps.