Crazy quote - speechless
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Instructor
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 161
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From: Florida
Crazy quote - speechless
Hello all,
i wanted to hear your thoughts and experienced feedback on today’s experience.
I had an abnormal wear on the inner part of front right tire (toe in)
I go to an Indy shop specializes in European cars here in South GA and ask if I can have an alignment done and with the occasion ask for a quote for installing 10mm spacers in the rear; this was supposed to be done by removing front studs to put in the back and install new ones (in my possession) in the front (5mm spacers).
I can understand a quote for 780$ (labor only) for the installation the spacers and new studs on four wheels; this, although can be avoided, very likely may involve the removal of all hubs in order to do an accurate job.
Another shop, months ago in JAX quoted me 650$ For the same service.
what I cannot understand is 580$ for an alignment.
580$!?!?!?!!
A normal alignment for a regular car at “Uncle Joe” alignment shop in town is around 40-50$.
I paid an alignment 110$ in the past from a good Indy shop in JAX FL
but 580$ sounded completely out of common sense.
these guys not even looked at the car but apparently just looked at an online “hour book” and made the quote.
they asked me to leave the car overnight for an alignment....took this excuse to run away.
the explanation for the high quote was that there are a lot of manual regulations to do, was that they’d do a perfect job.... mine is a fully daily drive street car not even a track day car.
I understand too quality service and needs to be paid but 580$ for an alignment without even looking at the car.... doesn’t sound very professional.
I ask the expert of this is possible or was a galactic joke...
or if, for competition purposes, this is normal.
thanks!
i wanted to hear your thoughts and experienced feedback on today’s experience.
I had an abnormal wear on the inner part of front right tire (toe in)
I go to an Indy shop specializes in European cars here in South GA and ask if I can have an alignment done and with the occasion ask for a quote for installing 10mm spacers in the rear; this was supposed to be done by removing front studs to put in the back and install new ones (in my possession) in the front (5mm spacers).
I can understand a quote for 780$ (labor only) for the installation the spacers and new studs on four wheels; this, although can be avoided, very likely may involve the removal of all hubs in order to do an accurate job.
Another shop, months ago in JAX quoted me 650$ For the same service.
what I cannot understand is 580$ for an alignment.
580$!?!?!?!!
A normal alignment for a regular car at “Uncle Joe” alignment shop in town is around 40-50$.
I paid an alignment 110$ in the past from a good Indy shop in JAX FL
but 580$ sounded completely out of common sense.
these guys not even looked at the car but apparently just looked at an online “hour book” and made the quote.
they asked me to leave the car overnight for an alignment....took this excuse to run away.
the explanation for the high quote was that there are a lot of manual regulations to do, was that they’d do a perfect job.... mine is a fully daily drive street car not even a track day car.
I understand too quality service and needs to be paid but 580$ for an alignment without even looking at the car.... doesn’t sound very professional.
I ask the expert of this is possible or was a galactic joke...
or if, for competition purposes, this is normal.
thanks!
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Hello all,
i wanted to hear your thoughts and experienced feedback on today’s experience.
I had an abnormal wear on the inner part of front right tire (toe in)
I go to an Indy shop specializes in European cars here in South GA and ask if I can have an alignment done and with the occasion ask for a quote for installing 10mm spacers in the rear; this was supposed to be done by removing front studs to put in the back and install new ones (in my possession) in the front (5mm spacers).
I can understand a quote for 780$ (labor only) for the installation the spacers and new studs on four wheels; this, although can be avoided, very likely may involve the removal of all hubs in order to do an accurate job.
Another shop, months ago in JAX quoted me 650$ For the same service.
what I cannot understand is 580$ for an alignment.
580$!?!?!?!!
A normal alignment for a regular car at “Uncle Joe” alignment shop in town is around 40-50$.
I paid an alignment 110$ in the past from a good Indy shop in JAX FL
but 580$ sounded completely out of common sense.
these guys not even looked at the car but apparently just looked at an online “hour book” and made the quote.
they asked me to leave the car overnight for an alignment....took this excuse to run away.
the explanation for the high quote was that there are a lot of manual regulations to do, was that they’d do a perfect job.... mine is a fully daily drive street car not even a track day car.
I understand too quality service and needs to be paid but 580$ for an alignment without even looking at the car.... doesn’t sound very professional.
I ask the expert of this is possible or was a galactic joke...
or if, for competition purposes, this is normal.
thanks!
i wanted to hear your thoughts and experienced feedback on today’s experience.
I had an abnormal wear on the inner part of front right tire (toe in)
I go to an Indy shop specializes in European cars here in South GA and ask if I can have an alignment done and with the occasion ask for a quote for installing 10mm spacers in the rear; this was supposed to be done by removing front studs to put in the back and install new ones (in my possession) in the front (5mm spacers).
I can understand a quote for 780$ (labor only) for the installation the spacers and new studs on four wheels; this, although can be avoided, very likely may involve the removal of all hubs in order to do an accurate job.
Another shop, months ago in JAX quoted me 650$ For the same service.
what I cannot understand is 580$ for an alignment.
580$!?!?!?!!
A normal alignment for a regular car at “Uncle Joe” alignment shop in town is around 40-50$.
I paid an alignment 110$ in the past from a good Indy shop in JAX FL
but 580$ sounded completely out of common sense.
these guys not even looked at the car but apparently just looked at an online “hour book” and made the quote.
they asked me to leave the car overnight for an alignment....took this excuse to run away.
the explanation for the high quote was that there are a lot of manual regulations to do, was that they’d do a perfect job.... mine is a fully daily drive street car not even a track day car.
I understand too quality service and needs to be paid but 580$ for an alignment without even looking at the car.... doesn’t sound very professional.
I ask the expert of this is possible or was a galactic joke...
or if, for competition purposes, this is normal.
thanks!
Not sure about the 993, but with most Porsche models there is adjustment available for toe, caster and camber at the front and toe and camber on the rear. Couple that with the potential to corner balance too there is a whole lot more work involved than the typical "wheel alignment" offered by the local Indie shops.
A full alignment by a knowledgeable technician can take as much as 6 hours using quite expensive equipment. It can be done quite successfully with string and protractor, but, it is time intensive.
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
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$580 seems reasonable. Make sure they send you an “all green” sheet with no monkey business. Or just YOLO like me. Tires are cheap and I have string and good eyesight to set things up.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 161
Likes: 21
From: Florida
The vast majority of "normal" cars only have a toe adjustment on the front wheels - all other settings are fixed.
Not sure about the 993, but with most Porsche models there is adjustment available for toe, caster and camber at the front and toe and camber on the rear. Couple that with the potential to corner balance too there is a whole lot more work involved than the typical "wheel alignment" offered by the local Indie shops.
A full alignment by a knowledgeable technician can take as much as 6 hours using quite expensive equipment. It can be done quite successfully with string and protractor, but, it is time intensive.
Not sure about the 993, but with most Porsche models there is adjustment available for toe, caster and camber at the front and toe and camber on the rear. Couple that with the potential to corner balance too there is a whole lot more work involved than the typical "wheel alignment" offered by the local Indie shops.
A full alignment by a knowledgeable technician can take as much as 6 hours using quite expensive equipment. It can be done quite successfully with string and protractor, but, it is time intensive.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,273
Likes: 6,729
Hello all,
i wanted to hear your thoughts and experienced feedback on today’s experience.
I had an abnormal wear on the inner part of front right tire (toe in)
I go to an Indy shop specializes in European cars here in South GA and ask if I can have an alignment done and with the occasion ask for a quote for installing 10mm spacers in the rear; this was supposed to be done by removing front studs to put in the back and install new ones (in my possession) in the front (5mm spacers).
I can understand a quote for 780$ (labor only) for the installation the spacers and new studs on four wheels; this, although can be avoided, very likely may involve the removal of all hubs in order to do an accurate job.
Another shop, months ago in JAX quoted me 650$ For the same service.
what I cannot understand is 580$ for an alignment.
580$!?!?!?!!
A normal alignment for a regular car at “Uncle Joe” alignment shop in town is around 40-50$.
I paid an alignment 110$ in the past from a good Indy shop in JAX FL
but 580$ sounded completely out of common sense.
these guys not even looked at the car but apparently just looked at an online “hour book” and made the quote.
they asked me to leave the car overnight for an alignment....took this excuse to run away.
the explanation for the high quote was that there are a lot of manual regulations to do, was that they’d do a perfect job.... mine is a fully daily drive street car not even a track day car.
I understand too quality service and needs to be paid but 580$ for an alignment without even looking at the car.... doesn’t sound very professional.
I ask the expert of this is possible or was a galactic joke...
or if, for competition purposes, this is normal.
thanks!
i wanted to hear your thoughts and experienced feedback on today’s experience.
I had an abnormal wear on the inner part of front right tire (toe in)
I go to an Indy shop specializes in European cars here in South GA and ask if I can have an alignment done and with the occasion ask for a quote for installing 10mm spacers in the rear; this was supposed to be done by removing front studs to put in the back and install new ones (in my possession) in the front (5mm spacers).
I can understand a quote for 780$ (labor only) for the installation the spacers and new studs on four wheels; this, although can be avoided, very likely may involve the removal of all hubs in order to do an accurate job.
Another shop, months ago in JAX quoted me 650$ For the same service.
what I cannot understand is 580$ for an alignment.
580$!?!?!?!!
A normal alignment for a regular car at “Uncle Joe” alignment shop in town is around 40-50$.
I paid an alignment 110$ in the past from a good Indy shop in JAX FL
but 580$ sounded completely out of common sense.
these guys not even looked at the car but apparently just looked at an online “hour book” and made the quote.
they asked me to leave the car overnight for an alignment....took this excuse to run away.
the explanation for the high quote was that there are a lot of manual regulations to do, was that they’d do a perfect job.... mine is a fully daily drive street car not even a track day car.
I understand too quality service and needs to be paid but 580$ for an alignment without even looking at the car.... doesn’t sound very professional.
I ask the expert of this is possible or was a galactic joke...
or if, for competition purposes, this is normal.
thanks!
I believe I paid in the $400 range. It's not cheap to be done properly. That said, $580 is alot, but believable. Maybe they were trying to price you out - make it worth their time to do something they weren't familiar with doing?
I'm originally from South Georgia and I'd be surprised if there was someone down there competent to properly align a 993. I could be wrong though. Not sure where you live, but a safe bet would be somewhere in Florida or go up to ATL. I did mine at NolaSport in New Orleans and they did a good job using the proper tools.
Key question - ask them if they have the kinematic toe arm alignment tool. One local "Porsche expert" told me the tool was "too expensive" and he didn't use one. Very easy to ruin the driving experience of these cars with a bad alignment. I know from first hand experience.
Last edited by rk-d; Aug 19, 2020 at 01:12 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,621
Likes: 1,704
From: New Jersey
The two things I find questionable here are the $110 alignment on a 911 in JAX and also the fact that $600-800 to replace wheel studs seems reasonable but the $600 to do an entire alignment does not? 
It is definitely not a 1 hour job. The price quoted seems fair.
It is definitely not a 1 hour job. The price quoted seems fair.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,038
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From: Dubai
5-6 hours for an alignment job 
what the hell are they doing all the time?
My guys here need far less than 3 hours on a track setup for a completely messed up (dismantled) turnbuckle setup ...
Wouldn't being fair to mention what you pay for such job here ...
what the hell are they doing all the time?
My guys here need far less than 3 hours on a track setup for a completely messed up (dismantled) turnbuckle setup ...
Wouldn't being fair to mention what you pay for such job here ...
Last edited by Holger3.2; Aug 19, 2020 at 03:25 AM.
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Drifting
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,074
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From: Paris
I do my 993 alignment myself with the porsche Kinematic factory tools. on same alignment lift as dealer, and same beissbarth alignment machine
It takes me around 3 hours easy, by myself.
Issue is that you have to finish alignment, and go for a small ride, re-install car and everything, and recheck
if all levels good as you wanted, three hours is logic
at +/- €125 per hour without tax @ porsche , price above is not shocking, and porsche here redo alignment if you test drive car with mechanic and something doesn't suit you
It takes me around 3 hours easy, by myself.
Issue is that you have to finish alignment, and go for a small ride, re-install car and everything, and recheck
if all levels good as you wanted, three hours is logic
at +/- €125 per hour without tax @ porsche , price above is not shocking, and porsche here redo alignment if you test drive car with mechanic and something doesn't suit you
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From: Toscana, Italia
It depends how they do the alignment: if they make it on the weigh scales, one for each wheel, corner balancing, it is a very good price and yes, it takes 5 to 6 hours.
If instead they are going to do it with the standard system, without corner balance, I think here the cost would be, for a 1 hour check and small adjustments 60 to 80 euro and for a total setting, with change of some components (like for example the old tie rods) something between 200 and 250 euro.
The fact is, if you enter with a beautiful girl, dressed in red in a restaurant, aren't all the people going to watch her? So you must pay more, otherwise change to an ugly one and maybe you'll get a discount from the standard price.
If instead they are going to do it with the standard system, without corner balance, I think here the cost would be, for a 1 hour check and small adjustments 60 to 80 euro and for a total setting, with change of some components (like for example the old tie rods) something between 200 and 250 euro.
The fact is, if you enter with a beautiful girl, dressed in red in a restaurant, aren't all the people going to watch her? So you must pay more, otherwise change to an ugly one and maybe you'll get a discount from the standard price.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 161
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From: Florida
well this was exactly my point of the post.
very honestly didn’t know it could take that long to do a good, high level alignment; now I understand better.
you think the studs replacement for 4 wheels is too high?
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 2,621
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From: New Jersey
I would say the price quoted for the wheel studs is a bit high, yes. Complete removal of the wheel, rotor, caliper, hub and then replacement of the studs and re-assembly is 45-60min tops per corner. So 3-4hr job. Based on the price quoted, the labor is ~$200/hr.
But that wasn't my main point. It was more, what the hell did someone actually do for $110? Sounds like a 1 hour labor charge, which in reality means they probably spent 30-45min on it?
My other point was really that it seems like you were OK with spending over $500 to replace wheel studs but didn't value a complicated wheel alignment at the same cost. Understand now you did not realize how much adjustability is available on these cars but I guess the way I look at it is: wheel stud replacement (low level grunt work), wheel alignment (specialized tuning of the car). I'd value and pay more for a proper alignment than having someone replace a few bolts.
But that wasn't my main point. It was more, what the hell did someone actually do for $110? Sounds like a 1 hour labor charge, which in reality means they probably spent 30-45min on it?
My other point was really that it seems like you were OK with spending over $500 to replace wheel studs but didn't value a complicated wheel alignment at the same cost. Understand now you did not realize how much adjustability is available on these cars but I guess the way I look at it is: wheel stud replacement (low level grunt work), wheel alignment (specialized tuning of the car). I'd value and pay more for a proper alignment than having someone replace a few bolts.
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Corner balancing is adjusting the spring height on the suspension so that all four tires are putting equal loads onto the road. The car is placed on four scales and then adjusted accordingly with the weight of the driver in the driver's seat and maybe half a tank of fuel. Doing so can mitigate a handling difference (i.e. oversteer in one direction and understeer in another). Usually not required for a street car unless there's a handling issue at the limit. Had a first gen VW GTI back then that did that; didn't know that corner balancing could have reduced it, but this was well before the internet.
I think I pay $400 or so for a four wheel balancing by a shop that knows how to adjust kinematic toe.
I think I pay $400 or so for a four wheel balancing by a shop that knows how to adjust kinematic toe.