993 RS vs 993 TT
06-28-2002, 01:10 AM
#32
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[quote]Originally posted by leslie:
<strong>Rocket and Big Mac,
RHD 993 RS numbers in Asia Pacific:
Australia 13 (12 remaining, 1 written off)
New Zealand 3 (Big Mac is this accurate?)
Singapore 4 (This I can vouch for, see the other 3 often)
HK 11
Philippines 2
</strong><hr></blockquote>
From what I've learnt, there were original 11 RS imported to HK but 1 or 2 has been re-exported to Australia/UK
<strong>Rocket and Big Mac,
RHD 993 RS numbers in Asia Pacific:
Australia 13 (12 remaining, 1 written off)
New Zealand 3 (Big Mac is this accurate?)
Singapore 4 (This I can vouch for, see the other 3 often)
HK 11
Philippines 2
</strong><hr></blockquote>
From what I've learnt, there were original 11 RS imported to HK but 1 or 2 has been re-exported to Australia/UK
06-28-2002, 03:21 AM
#33
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Phil,
Guess a lobotomy is in order for me...
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Kai,
Plenty of Singapore cars actually get exported out particularly to New Zealand but thankfully, all the 4 RSs imported are still here.
Guess a lobotomy is in order for me...
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Kai,
Plenty of Singapore cars actually get exported out particularly to New Zealand but thankfully, all the 4 RSs imported are still here.
07-01-2002, 04:10 AM
#34
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Leslie,
My friend confirmed the NZ number of three as correct; one in Auckland, one in Wellington and one in Hawkes Bay.
BTW: Singapore isn't the only Asian country we kiwis are pillaging for used Porsches; my mechanic's 964RS is ex HK. Not sure how their export system works but he said the price was too tempting to resist.
My friend confirmed the NZ number of three as correct; one in Auckland, one in Wellington and one in Hawkes Bay.
BTW: Singapore isn't the only Asian country we kiwis are pillaging for used Porsches; my mechanic's 964RS is ex HK. Not sure how their export system works but he said the price was too tempting to resist.
07-01-2002, 04:30 AM
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John,
Guess the tax regulations are such that Singapore and HK will never be a heaven for vintage cars! Best thing to do would be to probably retire in NZ and bring my RS with me.
Guess the tax regulations are such that Singapore and HK will never be a heaven for vintage cars! Best thing to do would be to probably retire in NZ and bring my RS with me.
07-01-2002, 07:17 AM
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Cars are expensive in HK simply because of what we call the First Time Registration tax, ie when the car first ship into HK new. any car costing over US$35k (i think) when imported into HK are taxed 100%. A new 02 996C2 including tax cost ~US$140k
Because of such tax system, cars depreciate fast in HK. Also the road condition (always stop go traffic) and humid weather means that cars doesnt last long, Any car over 10yrs are VERY old. That's why some "old" Porches, espcially those with stick shift, are quite cheap. A pretty good condition 91/92 964C4 are going for less than US$25k if you can find one. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Because of such tax system, cars depreciate fast in HK. Also the road condition (always stop go traffic) and humid weather means that cars doesnt last long, Any car over 10yrs are VERY old. That's why some "old" Porches, espcially those with stick shift, are quite cheap. A pretty good condition 91/92 964C4 are going for less than US$25k if you can find one. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
07-01-2002, 02:28 PM
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[quote] Rocket,
If you like, send me an email and I will forward Len's e-mail contact so that you can get in touch. I think I will drop him a mail to see how he is progressing with the register. BTW, my chassis no. is WPOZZZ99zTS390436. How did you verify that your car was the first off the production line? Do you mean that it was the very first 993RS or the first RHD RS? Anyways, it is in beautiful condition
<hr></blockquote>
Leslie........visavi the 1st car off the production line.....I can only go on what I've been told.
Logically chassis 0001 would be the 1st but mine is 0009 and the original owners were Porsche AG in Stuttgart who ran the car for 14,000 miles as a "company car" from November 1994 until May 1996 when it was sold to the then Chairman of the Porsche Owners Club GB namely Frank Hampton.
Why Porsche should want to run a RHD car in Germany is anyones guess, but the history is documented right from the day it turned its first wheel with entries in a Porsche Fahrtenbuch meticulously detailing "in" and "out" mileages, who drove the car, how much petrol was used and where it was driven to.
Harm Lagaay, Hanns Herrmann and Tony Hatter (the designer of the 993) are all documented as having driven the car.
When the car was sold to the Chairman of the Porsche Owners Club GB, the car had a new engine fitted by the factory at 14,000 miles which is also documented. From the log book there is no evidence that the car was used particularly hard, as there is only one entry to the Nurburgring and two to Zandvoort so why the engine was changed I have no idea.
Rocket.
If you like, send me an email and I will forward Len's e-mail contact so that you can get in touch. I think I will drop him a mail to see how he is progressing with the register. BTW, my chassis no. is WPOZZZ99zTS390436. How did you verify that your car was the first off the production line? Do you mean that it was the very first 993RS or the first RHD RS? Anyways, it is in beautiful condition
<hr></blockquote>
Leslie........visavi the 1st car off the production line.....I can only go on what I've been told.
Logically chassis 0001 would be the 1st but mine is 0009 and the original owners were Porsche AG in Stuttgart who ran the car for 14,000 miles as a "company car" from November 1994 until May 1996 when it was sold to the then Chairman of the Porsche Owners Club GB namely Frank Hampton.
Why Porsche should want to run a RHD car in Germany is anyones guess, but the history is documented right from the day it turned its first wheel with entries in a Porsche Fahrtenbuch meticulously detailing "in" and "out" mileages, who drove the car, how much petrol was used and where it was driven to.
Harm Lagaay, Hanns Herrmann and Tony Hatter (the designer of the 993) are all documented as having driven the car.
When the car was sold to the Chairman of the Porsche Owners Club GB, the car had a new engine fitted by the factory at 14,000 miles which is also documented. From the log book there is no evidence that the car was used particularly hard, as there is only one entry to the Nurburgring and two to Zandvoort so why the engine was changed I have no idea.
Rocket.
07-01-2002, 10:25 PM
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Rocket,
Wow! That is really facinating! Wonder why Porsche would want to produce a RHD car first and then run the car themselves for the first 18 months of it's life. You must have paid a significant premium for the obviously well documented history of the car. Did you ever find out why they fitted the club sport front spoiler and the regular RS 'ducktail' aerokit combination on the car?
Wow! That is really facinating! Wonder why Porsche would want to produce a RHD car first and then run the car themselves for the first 18 months of it's life. You must have paid a significant premium for the obviously well documented history of the car. Did you ever find out why they fitted the club sport front spoiler and the regular RS 'ducktail' aerokit combination on the car?
07-01-2002, 11:38 PM
#40
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I think this thread is very interesting. Like 993RS (Phil) and others, I have been slowly adding RS parts to my car and removing weight where practical. Previously, I fully converted a 993 to an RSCS replica for the purpose of Porsche Club Racing. As a side note, it was a very fun project. My idea of an RS is a car that you can comfortably drive on the street, daily if you like, and take it to the track and run it as is. You can do this with any 993 or Porsche for that matter, but the RS, in my opinion, is more competent given its lighter weight, capable suspension and track-focused components. That idea is very appealing to me.
Last week I sold my dedicated race car, a 996 GT3-Cup. I attended a DE last weekend and it was hard on the ego being passed by 993 TTs and 996 TTs. I have been contemplating buying a 993 TT as a track/street car. Unlike some other posts in this thread, I don’t think the 993 TT is a grand tourer. I have instructed in some very well set up 993 TTs and found them to be incredible. I have also instructed in stock 993 TTs and was equally impressed by their poise capabilities.
Like others, I feel that the 993 RS is the ultimate development of the normally aspirated street 993 and the TT is the ultimate development of the turbocharged air cooled 911/993. I realize that there were some special TTs produced, such as the GT2, but they are not streetable in the US and the cost of building one doesn’t appeal to me at this time.
As Leslie notes, the RS isn’t much of a family car, but the TT only marginally bridges the gap between the two cars. I think there are a few toys we have to have selfishly for ourselves. If I were to sell my RS replica project to buy a TT I think I would regret that decision. I would be very happy with the TT, but the RS concept is better aligned with my personal preferences which are light weight, minimal comfort items, race track competence and relative ease of maintenance. My point is that you (we) should pick the car that is most closely associated with our wants and goals. By the way, if I owned a factory 993 RS, I am pretty sure that I could only be separated from it in death.
Hank
Last week I sold my dedicated race car, a 996 GT3-Cup. I attended a DE last weekend and it was hard on the ego being passed by 993 TTs and 996 TTs. I have been contemplating buying a 993 TT as a track/street car. Unlike some other posts in this thread, I don’t think the 993 TT is a grand tourer. I have instructed in some very well set up 993 TTs and found them to be incredible. I have also instructed in stock 993 TTs and was equally impressed by their poise capabilities.
Like others, I feel that the 993 RS is the ultimate development of the normally aspirated street 993 and the TT is the ultimate development of the turbocharged air cooled 911/993. I realize that there were some special TTs produced, such as the GT2, but they are not streetable in the US and the cost of building one doesn’t appeal to me at this time.
As Leslie notes, the RS isn’t much of a family car, but the TT only marginally bridges the gap between the two cars. I think there are a few toys we have to have selfishly for ourselves. If I were to sell my RS replica project to buy a TT I think I would regret that decision. I would be very happy with the TT, but the RS concept is better aligned with my personal preferences which are light weight, minimal comfort items, race track competence and relative ease of maintenance. My point is that you (we) should pick the car that is most closely associated with our wants and goals. By the way, if I owned a factory 993 RS, I am pretty sure that I could only be separated from it in death.
Hank
07-02-2002, 12:02 AM
#41
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Hank,
I feel just the same. I would never part with my car. It is also loads of fun (though not cheap...
) to progressively approach the RS specs. Next week, I will be having uniball installed front and back...
I feel just the same. I would never part with my car. It is also loads of fun (though not cheap...
) to progressively approach the RS specs. Next week, I will be having uniball installed front and back...
07-02-2002, 04:25 PM
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[quote] Did you ever find out why they fitted the club sport front spoiler and the regular RS 'ducktail' aerokit combination on the car?
<hr></blockquote>
This item was fitted by me, and surprisingly it seems to slightly improve the balance of the car through very fast corners. Its only the bottom section of the bumper that needs changing to achieve this and a few extra bits in the wheel arch, and can easily be changed back if I ever did sell. I don't like the Clubsport rear wing much, hence why I have retained the original item.
Whilst I adore my RS to drive on the track, the downside is that I don't push the car as hard as I might something more expendible. For me the joy of driving quickly is controlling the car on the limit, which inevitably increases the risk of an off. The majority of our circuits in the UK have armco very close to the track and or deep gravel traps. I see from alot of the US videos there seems to be a lot more space when or if you leave the track.
Rocket
<hr></blockquote>
This item was fitted by me, and surprisingly it seems to slightly improve the balance of the car through very fast corners. Its only the bottom section of the bumper that needs changing to achieve this and a few extra bits in the wheel arch, and can easily be changed back if I ever did sell. I don't like the Clubsport rear wing much, hence why I have retained the original item.
Whilst I adore my RS to drive on the track, the downside is that I don't push the car as hard as I might something more expendible. For me the joy of driving quickly is controlling the car on the limit, which inevitably increases the risk of an off. The majority of our circuits in the UK have armco very close to the track and or deep gravel traps. I see from alot of the US videos there seems to be a lot more space when or if you leave the track.
Rocket
07-03-2002, 06:43 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Hank Cohn:
<strong>
Unlike some other posts in this thread, I don’t think the 993 TT is a grand tourer. I have instructed in some very well set up 993 TTs and found them to be incredible. I have also instructed in stock 993 TTs and was equally impressed by their poise capabilities.
...................................
As Leslie notes, the RS isn’t much of a family car, but the TT only marginally bridges the gap between the two cars. I think there are a few toys we have to have selfishly for ourselves. If I were to sell my RS replica project to buy a TT I think I would regret that decision. I would be very happy with the TT, but the RS concept is better aligned with my personal preferences which are light weight, minimal comfort items, race track competence and relative ease of maintenance. My point is that you (we) should pick the car that is most closely associated with our wants and goals. By the way, if I owned a factory 993 RS, I am pretty sure that I could only be separated from it in death.
Hank</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hank,
You observation about 993tts is spot on. We have in our Porsche club in Singapore a number of 993tts that are putting out way in excess of 520 bhp and a few of these are active trackday participants. The combination of high levels of driving skill coupled with effective engine and suspension modifications is a sight to behold. I am sure that these owners would be bored if they were to swap cars with me.
The second para above where you state that "there are a few toys we have to have selfishly for ourselves" again is spot on.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Thanks in part to what the board has said, I will be keeping the RS. Maybe not to be seperated at death but hopefully for my son some time in the future. (He is now 19 months old!)
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
<strong>
Unlike some other posts in this thread, I don’t think the 993 TT is a grand tourer. I have instructed in some very well set up 993 TTs and found them to be incredible. I have also instructed in stock 993 TTs and was equally impressed by their poise capabilities.
...................................
As Leslie notes, the RS isn’t much of a family car, but the TT only marginally bridges the gap between the two cars. I think there are a few toys we have to have selfishly for ourselves. If I were to sell my RS replica project to buy a TT I think I would regret that decision. I would be very happy with the TT, but the RS concept is better aligned with my personal preferences which are light weight, minimal comfort items, race track competence and relative ease of maintenance. My point is that you (we) should pick the car that is most closely associated with our wants and goals. By the way, if I owned a factory 993 RS, I am pretty sure that I could only be separated from it in death.
Hank</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hank,
You observation about 993tts is spot on. We have in our Porsche club in Singapore a number of 993tts that are putting out way in excess of 520 bhp and a few of these are active trackday participants. The combination of high levels of driving skill coupled with effective engine and suspension modifications is a sight to behold. I am sure that these owners would be bored if they were to swap cars with me.
The second para above where you state that "there are a few toys we have to have selfishly for ourselves" again is spot on.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Thanks in part to what the board has said, I will be keeping the RS. Maybe not to be seperated at death but hopefully for my son some time in the future. (He is now 19 months old!)
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
